Heroes strategies, lets start with the basics!

[Savatage79]

Key basics to keep in mind and any other strategies that you wish to list would be more than welcomed

Im gonna be delving deep into the series so i want to know as much as i can.

Im personally starting with the original, so if any of you can post some strategies to remember that would be great...if you want to talk about 2-5 thats cool too being ill be making my way into them ever so slowly.

I wish i had put as much time into the HOMM series as i did the regular M&M games, all i know is that the MM universe, the style, these games...absolutely timeless.

So with that, post some strats!

[Kristo]

The first thing to learn about the early Heroes games is to not play like the computer does. You'll notice that AI players' castles are always defended and their heroes are roughly at even strength. You will be far more effective, however, if you focus most of your army strength and experience gaining on a single hero. This means you have to leave your castles lightly defended or not defended at all.

Naturally, that attracts attention. I think the key is to realize that the computer is programmed to care about physical objects like castles and mines. But strategy games are about controlling territory, an abstract concept that computers don't understand well. So, you need to uncover the shroud quickly so you can see the bad guys coming. Revealing more of the map will help you identify defensible locations. It doesn't matter if your castle is undefended if the bad guys can't get any heroes past your main hero.

[Savatage79]

So do you mean basically like...start off, and just kind of roll and plow enemies, collect materials etc...and just build up a pretty powerful character, then lay down the fort at a castle somewhere?

One thing i want to point out too...its amazing how well these games held up, the first HOMM looks really good even on my 24"LCD, i mean like really good for such an older title

[Kristo]

What I mean here is that you should play defense by playing offense. You should always seek to increase the size of the territory under your control. One of the good ways to do that is to conquer enemy towns and castles.

There's an easy map in the Heroes I collection (called The Claw I think) that will help you understand what I'm talking about. All four players have one way in or out of their home castle areas. They're connected to a small central area. This map illustrates a few key points:

1. If you have a strong hero in the center, you don't need to defend your castle(s), because the enemies can't get past you.

2. You can't just walk off after another player's castle without uncovering a bunch of the shroud first. Otherwise, enemy heroes will surprise you while your main hero is out of position.

3. You can't play defensively forever because you have three enemies coming after you. At some point they'll overwhelm your ability to grow your army.

4. You need to hire a second hero at some point to ferry new creatures out to your main hero. That way you don't have to run home to resupply.

Two threads for further reference:
Heroes 2 map "Revolution"
After-action reports (note: we don't always win!)

[Darmani]

An important to amendment to Kristo's first post. It is true that you wish to concentrate your troops in a few "combat heroes ." However, whether you have one or two or occasionally three or more depends on the map. I really like Kristo's phrase "defense by offense" -- you stop enemy heroes moving in from a particular direction by attacking in that general direction. However, sometimes it will be extremely difficult to defend in multiple directions with a single hero -- you'll end up having him run from one end of your territory from the other, and never be able to attack.

There are two solutions to this:

As I've already implied, one is to have multiple combat heroes. Usually, you want to wait until you have lots of troops from another faction before sending out another combat hero, as then there's no loss of opportunity from not combining the troops with your main. For example, in the H2 map "Broken Alliance," which has the various factions around a central lake, I typically send my first hero to conquer clockwise, and later send another hero counterclockwise, or vice versa (and then combine the troops to crush Purple, who is a given an island fortress isolated from the rest).

However, often times a better solution is to obey the motto of the villainous sensei from "Karate Kid": Strike first, strike hard, show no mercy. Hitting early is especially important against the AI in H1 and H2, as they are given free resources at harder difficulties, and you need to take them out before they build up too much (namely, by doing a smarter job picking what to build early on than them and using it better). If you take out an opponent early, then, not only will you be twice as powerful from having assimilated their holdings (be sure to hire an extra hero to flag their mines) and will have an easier time equipping another combat hero, but you'll have one less direction to defend against. This can easily cascade so that a series of enemies fall to your main combat hero within a very short timespan.


Now that we've talked about combat heroes, I must add this important note: the movement points of your combat hero are *very* valuable. He is the one hero you have (usually) who can take out the stacks of neutral creatures so that you can begin taking resources and expanding. You should hire secondary heroes to do things such as picking up treasure chests (almost always choose gold), and flagging undefended mines. Note that I said undefended -- if your combat hero just defeated some Zombies guarding a Sulfur mine, it'll usually be a better idea to go spend a couple movement points and flag it with your main today rather than call over a scout to take a detour and flag it tomorrow.

[Savatage79]

Now does this all apply to the campaigns or are you guys talking about like the skirmish type maps?

[Macros the Black]

I wish I'd have read this thread years ago, it took me so much time to relearn the game when I had already taught myself how to play it wrong (in almost all strategy games, especially RTS's, I'm always way too defensive).

Now does this all apply to the campaigns or are you guys talking about like the skirmish type maps?

Knowing the basics and having tested them out will definately help in getting past the campaigns. Compared to most other games, the campaigns in Heroes games are hard. In most games, the campaigns serve as sort of a tutorial to skirmish/multiplayer play. Not so with Heroes, it's rather the other way around.

However, in about roughly half the campaign maps the offense rule doesn't work and you need to build up slowly in order to beat the enemy. But, consider this:

You start a campaign mission with no idea what's in store for you. You have two options: 1) build up slowly. 2) crush the opposition fast. Both options can be useful, depending on how the map is set up. You don't know which will work. But by choosing option number 2), you'll waste less time trying to find out what you need to do.

One thing to keep in mind about the campaigns though is to level your hero until he can't level anymore on that map. That's more important than winning the map, as the further you get in the campaign the harder the maps get (so sacrifice some time if nescesary early on to ensure your survival later). Don't worry though, in most maps you'll get max level by just playing normally. If however you find you're not yet max level (if you are, it'll tell you after every experience gain opportunity) by the time you can end the map, spend some time to train before going for the last battle.

By the way, one thing I think hasn't been mentioned yet. This game will tempt you to play defensively. Here are some examples that I'm sure we've all experienced:

1) you don't have enough gold to buy all your creatures when the week ends. You decide to stay in town, to buy everything up the next week. However, in those 7 days you still don't earn enough to buy up everything. But, at the end of this week you notice that you're closer to having everything bought than you were the week before. So you stay in town for multiple weeks just to buy up all the creatures.
Waste of time. Not only is it pointless, because the enemy will only get stronger just as you (in fact, he gets stronger faster if it's an AI opponent - they cheat). But you also don't even need to do this. Just send out a second hero or more that keep(s) ferrying troops to your main hero. Only time your main hero needs to visit town is when you upgraded your mage guild.

2) in most maps, there will be lots and lots of items laying around all over the map: recources, mines, creature posts, artifacts, etc etc. You may think picking up a virtually useless artifact is okay because it'll only take you half a turn to get there, but it adds up. Don't collect stuff you don't need, stay focussed on your goals. Don't let yourself get swept off in a direction you weren't going in just because there's so much goodies to pick up. This isn't WoW, you don't need to gather everything
And most of the time, you can use a secondary hero to pick up recources and mines, leaving only treasure chests (experience) and artifacts for your main hero to pick up. Just have the secondary hero follow your main around.

3) a weak computer hero enters your viewing field. You chase him down. He then runs around in circles, flagging your mines and taking your recources while you try to chase him down with your main hero. It'll take you weeks to catch up, so don't bother. Instead, have some secondary heroes to catch him. Use multiple at the same time if possible in order to corner him. If you let him keep your main hero busy, you will get nowhere fast, and the enemy will just keep making his heroes more powerful while you're being distracted.
If you really MUST get rid of the hero because, for instance, you are about to build your best creature's building just before before the end of the turn and you won't have enough gold if he takes your gold mine, then don't run after him but rather just send your hero straight to the gold mine to protect it from him. Buy a secondary hero when you got some gold left, and have him protect the mine so your main can continue on. Of course the secondary hero will need to have enough creatures to actually beat the enemy heroes (chances are, they will send a stronger one next time).

4) You're winning. Nothing can keep you from winning the map, but the enemy heroes are overwhelmingly much and you just can't kill them all. At this point, ignore them. Don't chase after them. Chances are, you'll have enough creatures with your main right now. In that case, just buy everything up that you can to protect the towns you have so far. Send your main hero (and perhaps some secondarys too if you're doing well enough) to capture all the remaining towns. Then defend them for a week and the enemy heroes will be defeated (they have to capture a town within a week after they lost their last one). Much easier than playing catch-up all the time.

So, like everyone else said, if you keep in mind offensive play, you won't fall for these things. But it can be hard to not get caught up in the moment. Well, it is for me

[Kristo]

The campaigns have a few odd scenarios that require special tactics, but in general you can play the way we've described. How many combat heroes you use depends on the map size. For starters, how about you try this:

1. Play on Normal or Easy difficulty.
2. Hire a second hero on the first turn. Exchange troops so that one hero has 1 creature of Average speed or higher, and the other hero has everything else. This guy will be your combat hero.
3. The combat hero does all the fighting (duh - the other guy isn't going to do much with 1 Goblin ). He's also allowed to take experience from treasure chests if you can afford to not take gold.
4. The secondary hero picks up loose resources, visits places like Windmills and Faerie Rings, and shuttles new creatures out to your combat hero.
5. Focus on building the highest level creature dwelling you can get by day 7 of the first week. That means you need to find enough resources to afford to build everything.

You'll have to play for a while to get a feel for how strong the various creatures are relative to each other. Part of the skill of the early game is to not buy too many creatures so that you can afford the buildings. You need practice to learn what "overbought" looks like. Since the creature generators refresh on the first day of each week, it's important to get things built before the week runs out. If you build on day 7, you will have twice as many creatures available the next day.

Keep us posted on how you're doing and feel free to ask more questions. We're here to help.

[Savatage79]

Sadly i havent had too much time to play as of late...i got sidetracked with a few other games and im gonna be fully delving into HOMM soon here, i just got to finish off one or two of the current games im playing.

But heres another qualm i got and its more my issue than anything, but when i read the info guys...and its well appreciated for sure, i just get bummed when games kind of have set ways to play. Like it kind of frustrates me a bit because the way i want to play, seems like its not the way to play...and i sometimes feel with games like this, that kind of falls into the mark which frustrates me only because i feel like i gotta follow the guidelines every single step of the way or its instant loss in the end.

Know what i mean guys? Its just overwhelming a bit...i love these games and the idea of them, but i just sometimes feel so overwhelmed with them.

Same with Civ IV, i bought it and was trying it out and man it makes me feel like a complete retard playing these games because its like im just so lacking in how to play them.

I grew up playing typical rpgs like wizardry, might and magic, d&d games etc...and ive no problem with any of them, but theses strat games i just suck so bad because the patterns seem to be set already as to how to play and not much room for flexibility.

Or am i off base with that assumption?

[Kristo]

I think we're probably throwing too much information at you too quickly. There's no one right way to play this game. Heroes was my first experience at turn-based strategy games, and this thread is largely a collection of things I wish I'd known when I started. Frankly, I just didn't know how to play at all.

So start on Easy difficulty. Experiment. Ask us questions. Discover what works and what doesn't. It's all part of the process. And you can trust me, it really is fun.

[Savatage79]

Oh i feel the fun :p its like on the verge of greatness once i realize a good way to play, its just these games overwhelm me sometimes.

So let me get this a little more straight...i start on up, i make a 2nd hero and which hero is out fighting...and by fighting do you mean just the enemy monsters or the actual blue player and or yellow players etc?

And the 2nd hero, does he stay at the castle or do i use money that i find to buy buildings and then when you guys say escort creatures to my main, wouldnt that leave the castle wide open for attack?

[Kristo]

So let me get this a little more straight...i start on up, i make a 2nd hero and which hero is out fighting...and by fighting do you mean just the enemy monsters or the actual blue player and or yellow players etc?

It'll be mostly wandering monsters at first. But if weak enemy heroes come knocking, feel free to crush them with extreme prejudice.

And the 2nd hero, does he stay at the castle or do i use money that i find to buy buildings and then when you guys say escort creatures to my main, wouldnt that leave the castle wide open for attack?

The secondary hero shouldn't just sit in the castle. That almost defeats the purpose of having him. His job is to explore new territory and pick up free stuff. And yes, your castle is wide open. That's why I talked about playing defense by offense.

[UndeadHalfOrc]

An important point nobody mentioned so far:

If you feel unsafe about leaving your castle undefended, consider leaving your slower creatures in there.

Someone made a point that the main hero should have as many adventure map movement points as he can. A good way to do it is to not recruit dendroids, dwarves, zombies, golems, Heroes2 Hydras, etc.

Then if the enemy attacks your town, you can hire them just before he attacks and split them into the maximum amount of stacks to buy your turrets a maximum of turns in which they get to shoot. (Another important reason to explore a good 15-20 squares radius aroudn your castle so you have the time to fortify a bit)

[Savatage79]

Just a random question guys...how does Heroes V differ from the first and well the other 4, just been curious about that.

[darknessfood]

I doný think so. You can compare it best with HoMM 3, just not as good. But the fact that it's not that good, doesn't mean it's not enjoyable !

[hobowu]

Just a random question guys...how does Heroes V differ from the first and well the other 4, just been curious about that.

Heroes V is sort of like heroes 3, except it takes double the time (or more) to finish the same map... (the warlords map: playing it in H5 was just...ugh)

H-V is much less balanced than H3.

It has a different hero skill system (which is much too complicated to explain :S_

...and has a different battle system, where the hexes are square instead of hexagonal. There is also no wait option. Morale does not mean your creature moves again, it means that it will move forwards in the creature moving order.... and so on.

I rather dislike H5... does it show?

On a rather more positive note, H5 is similar to H4 in that your heroes get to attack instead of just casting spells, although in H4 your heroes appear on the battlefield and can move (and can get killed:P) , while in H5 they stand to the side just like in H3.

[Darmani]

There is also no wait option.

Actually there is. Press 'W'.

[hobowu]

There is also no wait option.

Actually there is. Press 'W'.

yes, but the "wait" option is totally different to the "wait" in H3 =)

In H3, well, we all know about the fastest-unit-on-map moving twice in a row thing

In H5, you can move twice in a row too... but that relies on morale and initiative... or casting negative spells on enemies (stares at puppet master and mutters imba)

[maygwan]

There are a lot of different strategies on different maps, the basics are good advice but you will need time to learn and play the maps and understand the strategy you need..

eg someone mentioned build as many creature dwellings on first week, this is good advice but it depends on the map. some maps are low in resources especially gold so sometimes the stratedy is to go with
tavern
town hall
blacksmith
marketplace
mage guild 1
city hall
1 dwelling
then week 2 would be citadel,castle,5 dwellings if possible depending on resources...

another thing to take into consideration are you heroes some of them come with a good amount of troops so hiring 1 a week if you can spare the gold is good...
eg christian comes with troops and a ballista so for 2500 you get a ballasta and a small army free.
some heroes come with +350 gold a day so they pay for themselves after a week..
then there are many heroes who come with a special abilty:-Bron for example increases basalisks and comes with a few if you recruit which can be a nice powerful addition to a starting army.

likewise heroes may come with first aid tents or powerful magic when recruited which helps to flag mines and clear the area faster.

in sod gelu can upgrade archers and elves to sharpshooters so if he is available then recruit him.same with dracon on mages.

another tactic many players do is a chain this is where you go further from your main castle and each week you chain your creatures from the main castle to your main hero using 2-4 heroes or more.

most of this you will learn through gameplay, and on some of the more challenging maps you will learn that sometimes its best to run and lose your starting castle.

I think thats what makes homm3 great is the sheer amount of different strategies that people use, everyone as there main strategies per map but you will find certain maps you need to evolve and think up new strategies.

And al this is just strategies on building and heroes. there are 100s of different strategies you can use with the spell pool and secondary skills ect.

[Banedon]

How can you wait till the end of the first week to build a dwelling ...

In Heroes III you absolutely should rush your important dwellings. These are:

Castle: Marksmen -> whatever high-level creature easily reached
Conflux: Storm Elementals + Sprites -> Firebirds
Dungeon: Harpy Hags or Evil Eyes or Infernal Troglodytes if you have Shakti -> Minotaurs or Manticores
Tower: Gremlins first few turns -> whatever high-level creature easily reached (Genie Naga Giant)
Fortress: Dragonflies -> Basiliks and Gorgons
Stronghold: Rocs + Behemoths -> Thunderbirds
Inferno: Efreets
Necropolis: whatever high-level creature easily reached (Vampire Lich Dread Knight)
Rampart: Grand Elf + Centaur Captain -> War Unicorn

I've not included the common fodder creatures every faction should use, these are simply the core creatures. Absolutely should rush for them. Without them your creeping speed is much slowed; with them you can clear most neutrals without too heavy losses. Get them, and get them quickly. Economy can wait. Here for example is a build order with Castle. It's not set in stone but it's the general order:

1. Tavern if not already built (a second hero, or even third, is even more important than the key creatures!)
2. Archer's Tower if not already built
3. Upg. Archer's Tower (Rush the key creatures! Come on!)
4. Town Hall (with the key creature in hand you do not need more at once and can spend some time on economy)
5. Blacksmith (prerequisite for Barracks)
6. Barracks
7. Mage Guild / Griffin Tower / Citadel / Monastery etc (build for more creatures, the higher-level ones especially)

... and then upgrade to Capitol + Castle. Upgrading creatures, unless it is a major change like Archers -> Marksmen, can usually wait as well. Even if the map is poor on gold you still have to go for your key creatures, because without them you can't clear neutrals. Think of it as an investment: your creatures let you clear neutrals which gives you gold, resources and experience.

Here's a general tip I think applies to just about every strategy game, and Heroes III / IV / V are no exceptions. Speed wins games. Ask yourself after a game for example what you could've done faster. For example, if you used your main hero to pick up some loose resources, then you've sacrificed movement points to do so. If there's nothing else for your main hero to do then there's no difference. But if there is, and there usually is, then you've sacrificed some speed for something a second hero could've done just as simply. If you spend creatures guarding your town for an attack that never comes, then you might've suffered casualties or even failed to attack some neutrals because of it, and lost speed. If you spend time moving your hero back to your town to pick up new units, then you've sacrificed some speed to do something a second hero (or third, or fourth, etc) could've done. There are things you can't help but do, eg. you might have to move a hero back to learn spells. There's nothing you can do about that, but with experience you'll recognize the times you have to do it and what you can do without.

Play offensively, play with speed and use the Load Game button as often as you need to until you gain experience.