Good Bye Nival?

[Sir Dabbler]

Jeff; Ditto on everything you said.

[ThunderTitan]

>>Well I was not the one to bring up the comparison with Warcraft 3<<

Yes you where, because you misunderstood what i said.

>>Also, that 'being old' argument is no excuse. Just look up at Neverwinter Nights which was released the same year as WC3. Compare the trees if you'd like.<<

BINGO...

>>but most have a good design.<<

I'm sure the ppl at GW apreciate ur praise. (meh, i've always disliked the artists work even before H5, so i'll pass this time)

[Jonas]

I think most people have judged the H-V(tote) editor as a piece of crap because they haven't given it a chance. I did that too. But now, after two month working on my first map, I realize this editor is not tremendous, but close. Ok it's not user friendly in the beginning, but you get used to it (like in most computer related case ). It's all about giving it time, and of course, you need a brain too...

[HodgePodge]

I think most people have judged the H-V(tote) editor as a piece of crap because they haven't given it a chance. I did that too. But now, after two month working on my first map, I realize this editor is not tremendous, but close. Ok it's not user friendly in the beginning, but you get used to it (like in most computer related case ). It's all about giving it time, and of course, you need a brain too...

I find your comment insulting! I didn't pay $50 for a game to spend two months trying to figure out how to use the Editor. Funny, I know nothing about computer programming but was able to figure out how to use the H4 Map Editor in very little time. Even trying to open an already existing map with the H5 Editor was a chore too unpleasant to screw around with. No thanks.

[Storm-giant]

HV editor sucks, as it discourage newbies to make maps, unlike heroes II/III/IV. And thats a failure, imo, I still remenber Heroes IV editor as the best(of NWC), extremely easy to use and the scripts were half-predone, and heroes 3 had the time-events. It's true that HV editor can do so much things, but still isn't friendly to user, and you need to learn to make scripts, and you don't pay to learn , you pay to enjoy the game as HodgePodge stated.

[Asheera]

Yes, you payed for the game, not for the editor. The map editor is already a bonus. But a more user-friendly editor would be nice, I agree (although I don't have problems with the H5 one, except sometimes when it corrupts the maps)

[PhoenixReborn]

You are entirely wrong Asheera. An easy fan friendly map editor has been part of the series since the heroes 2 expansion pack. That is part of what you pay for...when you buy a heroes game you know there will be fan maps.

[Corlagon]

Actually, I'm pretty sure we got a map editor with the vanilla H2, as well as H1. Maybe not easy or fan-friendly, but it was there and it worked

I do agree though that the HV editor has everything, and I'm satisfied with it, but I wouldn't have been about two years ago when I couldn't mod. There were so many more options than in HI-IV that it was intimidating. I guess that's also part of the problem. You don't need everything to make good, long-lasting maps; you only need a map editor. This thing is a bloody construction studio.

[Avonu]

An easy fan friendly map editor has been part of the series since the heroes 2 expansion pack.

From H1 (Win version)

[Jonas]

I didn't intentend to insult anyone, it was just my opinion about the tote-editor. Sorry if I did.

I had absolutely no knowledge about programming before i started to use the editor.

Thanks to all good map-makers at this place I thought I had no use of the editor, but the maps don't last forever. So I just jumped in.

The thing is that the need and purpose of the editor, and even the game, different from us all. For me, a single player fan, the events in a map is more important than good fightings and even sometimes a good storyline. Because the tote-editor is less predestined than H4, it makes it more flexible. You can do almost anything with it. The backside of it is that it takes time to make a good (my opinion) map and that the bigger part of the work is done in what's not visible when you play the map - the script.

If you want to make a MP-map the needs are probably different - balance between players etc.

Anyway, whoever gets the new project H VI, I hope they keep the LUA based script, now when I have got a grip of it

[PhoenixReborn]

Well my copy of H1 didn't have a map editor. Nor do I remember getting the editor until I got PoL. Could be a faulty memory on my part.

[Avonu]

I remember creating "maps" in HoMM1 so I think editor always have been in H1. But I am not 100% sure.
BTW - this is from my DOS/Win95 version of HoMM1 (another one is only Windows version).

EDIT:
Stupid me: look for features on this page.

[PhoenixReborn]

Ok so the game has always had an editor so the point still stands. Looking back did I take Asheera's point out of context?

I'm surprised at the level of dissatisfaction with changing developers. I'd think a fresh start was welcome. I mean this in both cases.

[Asheera]

"You are entirely wrong Asheera. An easy fan friendly map editor has been part of the series since the heroes 2 expansion pack. That is part of what you pay for...when you buy a heroes game you know there will be fan maps."

So just because that was in the past means that it has to be every time from now on? Well, I disagree here. And also, about the fact that you know there will be fan maps, that's not a given. If the devs don't want to give you an editor at all and say this before, it's not their fault you buy the game expecting a map editor and then being disappointed, just because you ignored their message.

Of course this wasn't the situation with H5 (they did release the map editor), but you get my point. Now, I do get disappointed when the devs release a crappy editor that has only 30% of the original editor's capabilities (obviously meaning that it's not the editor the devs used themselves), which happened with Spellforce 1. At least Nival released the H5 editor they used themselves (yes, you need to change that value in the config files to give it its full potential, but it's still the same executable Nival used)

[Storm-giant]

Disagree with you, Ash, If something is added during the serie and the each single HOMM fan agrees that it's great(I highly doubt anyone don't like the old editors), it should be keept(and improved if possible). In fact, the editor is a part of the game(and not an external tool), since HOMM is an TBS game played on maps, the editor is a must, with it anyone can make maps so they give replayability to the game, which is a main thing in HOMM, imo.

I belive that any HOMM game should came with at least a basic editor(like heroes III one), other thing is the one which was used by the devs to create the game, the more features the better, but as long as it has the minimum features you can expect.

Cheers

[Corlagon]

If the devs don't want to give you an editor at all and say this before, it's not their fault you buy the game expecting a map editor and then being disappointed, just because you ignored their message.

Didn't an original HV release promise a map editor was included? And there wasn't one until five months later?

[Asheera]

Don't know, I'm not that informed about those Heroes 5 news before its launch, but if they did say they'll give an editor, I agree that was pretty lame to not do what they said.

[Jolly Joker]

I find some comments here pretty insulting as well.
The game wasn't made to please a handful of long-time fans. The long-time fans have the advantage of knowing the basics of the game, but someone who does not, will spend 50 $ and learn THE GAME over a long time, since it's not an easy game. It wouldn't make much sense to complain about that - that the game is difficult, I mean.

The trouble is, that you should be able to play the game halfway well, because otherwise inevitably the maps you make will suck. This is true for long-time fans as well. Just because you know H3 doesn't mean you can make a nice map for H4 and the same is true for H5.

If you like a game, but don't want to invest the necessary learning time to master it, you can of course complain, but aren't you a bit lazy as well? If you want to make maps for a complex game, the same is true. Added user-friendliness for the editor would have been nice, but there were other priorities.

I agree, though, about the high hardware specs necessary. The more complex and detailed the map, the more the game experience as such will suffer due to a performance deterioration. That's a real flaw. As far as I know there was a multi-core update planned, but I don't know whether that actually happened. If it didn't, the problem is, that game performance won't get better with technical development.

So the bottom line is, that neither the game as such nor the editor are optimized.

Clearly one is worse than the other. If the game will not capture you for longer than a month - who needs an editor? If the game is cool, but has no editor, it will suck as well, but for different reasons. If the game is good, but the editor is not easy to handle, that's clearly better than the two before. Of course that's not optimal.

That's why I think, it may be a chance when the game goes to a small developer. If the developer is smart, they won't hire double their usual staff to make a game of a scope they never handled in any way. A smart small developer will try and produce what they can deliver in the time agreed upon.

I hope for a somewhat H2-ish game with half of the H5 creatures and a completely revised system. It makes no sense to alter the game basics dramatically AND add to the scope as well: H4 had a lot less creatures and towns then H3 as well. Add an optimized code for smooth running, no matter map size and details, a working MP and Duel feature (yes, Duel mode should be kept) and an ADEQUATE editor, and I'll be happy.

[ThunderTitan]

f it didn't, the problem is, that game performance won't get better with technical development.

Eh... i'm pretty sure that it will... even 1 core is better then most older processors... sure, it's not as much as it could, but there's limit on how well the game can work anyhow... and i'm pretty sure it's already reached it.

[Edwardas 3]

Whatever we might think or not the pull on official game site

shows that : 13% of players absolutely wish for Nival to continue,40 % hope that Nival can continue for they have learned something;14% say no to Nival,but not criticize it much and 32% absolutely hate Nival

and it means big no.So 53% for Nival to continue with sixth installment

and 46% don't wish them to continue.

With 1/3 (32%)of players categorically against Nival shall Ubisoft to take risk and go on with Nival ? I mean that is kind of a lot of copies unsold ,right? But new players grow up all the time and they might not know a thing about 5 or 3 and 4 but still like whatever 6 would be?

Everything as we see bases on commercialization nowdays,that is why it was so different with JVC,the creator of series, for he was not only

a profit-maker ,he was eventually a fantasy fan and enthusiast ,so his work included something from the gamer'soul not only buck-making .....
Edited on Tue, Feb 10 2009, 06:31 by Edwardas 3