Stuck on Inferno #4

[The Mad Dragon]

Once again, I am being over powered and I dont' know what to do. Don't point me to walkthroughs because I am not going to read them.

My armies are fine, but I'm getting wiped and I don't know why.

[okrane]

oh come on... ever since you came here you started about 10 threads on how to finish certain maps of the campaigns....
it's not that hard... just try different strategies than turtling till you have 1000 upgraded level 7's and stuff...

hero skills also can really help

[fly away]

Once again, I am being over powered and I dont' know what to do. Don't point me to walkthroughs because I am not going to read them.
My armies are fine, but I'm getting wiped and I don't know why.

Are you really playing HV? Sounds like a completely different game to me:)

[The Mad Dragon]

oh come on... ever since you came here you started about 10 threads on how to finish certain maps of the campaigns....
it's not that hard... just try different strategies than turtling till you have 1000 upgraded level 7's and stuff...

hero skills also can really help

So, you'd rather I rush in, with weak armies and lose that way?

My hero's skills are fine....Perhaps it's what I am doing in the battle that's not helping....

I've also done more than just post about completing campaign mission's also.

[okrane]

IMO your should try many stuff... sometimes rushing can help... it depends on many things... but still Heroes 5 is not a very balanced game, and the campaigns are even poorly balanced...
i did not play them, because I believe they are mediocre... I find custom maps more entertaing....so I can really tell you what to try

[The Mad Dragon]

Once I get to the custom maps and need help, then I will ask for it.

[okrane]

I like you... you're funny :p

[Mytical]

Ok general fighting strategies (vs neutrals), that may or may not help you. 1st sometimes less is more : Fighting slow walkers? It is ok to put just about everything on the field, especially if there are a lot of them. Use your own melee to soak up there damage if needed, but do not rush them. Let them come to you. While they are, wither them with ranged fire.

VS weak ranged (and succubi mistresses which do not weak ranged, but this strategy still is best for them). Put your fastest (or most populous besides 1st tier) walkers and not much else. Race to them, and start hacking them downl. Saves your own archers/casters. Sometimes this is not possible, but if it is by all means. Also if you have confusion, blind, puppet master, ect use them. Use only 1 stack.

VS powerful ranged. Throw everything but the kitchen sink at them, and if you can find a kitchen sink, throw that at them too. Any spells that weaken, delay, or otherwise cause them havoc is great. Split your own archer and caster stacks when possible to make more targets. Watch for anything with the word lich in it however. Make sure to keep your stacks seperate apart from each other with them. Send your melee/flyers over asap. Even if they are griffens. Better to loose some griffens then ranged or casters.

VS casters - if you have them ..obsidan gargoyles..use them exclusively. If not fast flyers/walkers with as much hp as you can get (ie lots and lots, or just stronger flyer/walkers) and limit ranged units or do not put them on the field at all.

Now with the AI it gets a little tricky, but here are some basic tips that seem to work well for me. Remember that range damage is very very helpful. Flying/Casting is also good, but you need some damage soakers also. While 7 casting units do a tremendous ammount of damage, if the enemy can close in, incompacitate, or otherwise remove your casters, you loose. A stack of a single unit can come in handy occasionally, but if at all possible you want the biggest army you can get at all times. There are a few creatures of many types you want to let grow in towns; however. And the same goes for their upgrades.


Griffens
Treants
Horned Demons
and I am probably skipping over a few
Low growth or low hp is the key, unless they are ranged or casters.

[okrane]

VS powerful ranged. Throw everything but the kitchen sink at them, and if you can find a kitchen sink, throw that at them too. Any spells that weaken, delay, or otherwise cause them havoc is great. Split your own archer and caster stacks when possible to make more targets. Watch for anything with the word lich in it however.

it is either too late and I had a glass too many, or you people are really funny tonight

[The Mad Dragon]

Mytical, Neutral's is not what I am having issues with. It's the Elven Hero Armies that I am having issues with.

Now, my usual plan of attack is take out the Ranged first, followed up by either the flyers or the tanks.

Though, for spells, what should I be casting?

[okrane]

well what are your hero skills?
in what school of magic are you expert?

and what armies are we talking about? what troops do you have?

[The Mad Dragon]

Skills:

Expert Gating
Expert Attack -> Battle Frenzy, EXcruciating Strike, Power Of Speed
Expert Logistics -> Pathfinding, Swift Gating, Teleport Assault
Expert Luck -> Soldier's Luck, Swarming Gate
Expert Destructive Magic

Army:

Familiars, Horned Overseers, Cerberi, Succubi Mistresses, Nightmares, Pit Lords, Arch Devils

Enemy Armies:

Sylan units

[Mytical]

Well if you have any of the following they do help. Phantom Forces, Mass Slow, Mass Haste (remember I don't know what schools/perks you have). Confusion. (trying to keep it low level spells for you to have better chance of getting the spell). Mass suffering or Mass Curse. Raise dead if desperate. Gate if you are using units that can gate, and make sure if possible to gate your units next to the ranged units. Blind.

The enemy AI usually has it's units in a particular order, and seldom change it. Once you know where each type will be at, line the best units to tackle them against them. Flyers/Fast walkers vs melee/castes. Ranged/Casters vs flyers or walkers. If you get dragons, line them up immediately accross from the ranged..they can often make it to them in the first round and there goes one of the ranged units. Spells on their own don't win a fight, even with Dungeon and Empowered spells. If you don't use strategy (vs ai or human) then you can have just about every spell and still loose. Got a small handful of units left in a stack? Use them to soak up the retal of a heavy hitter (that doesn't have unlimited retal). Sometimes you rush the enemy units, sometimes you hold back. Sometimes you use all your units, sometimes you use 1 or 2. Also fight really strong heroes at your castle. Those towers can really turn the tide of battle sometimes.

[okrane]

I meant army sizes....

IMO you did wrong with destructive
you get really low SP with a demonlord and you can't really do much thing with it... dark is so much better... all those mass curses rule .. not to mention high level spells like Frenzy or Puppet Master... I saw a film on You Tube where a demolord defeated 500 archdevils with only 6 cerberi and these 2 spells....

anyway against sylvan you should take out first emeralds and master hunters... they are the strongest...
So I'd say, dont charge at them... if you do all the other units will hit you and you will lose... the emeralds are the first to come... hit them with all you got. Hit the hunters with succubi and a DD spell...
A good use to teleport assault is to use it with pitlords since it increases their initiative.
Mass Haste is a good spell to cast really early... but I'd kill those Hunters first...If you can reach them in one turn with smth you can cast haste... if not... implode them...
Unicorns are to be killed after... The rest of the Sylvan army is not that strong...

Use gating if you fell necesary... if you must wait with a unit, better gate... it's better...

[The Mad Dragon]

Destruction has Searing Fires, which helps out with Hellfire.

Army sizes can vary, so I can't really say.

And with the hunters, they are usually grouped in with other units, so I can't really get to them with melee units.

[Mytical]

Skills:

Expert Gating
Expert Attack -> Battle Frenzy, EXcruciating Strike, Power Of Speed
Expert Logistics -> Pathfinding, Swift Gating, Teleport Assault
Expert Luck -> Soldier's Luck, Swarming Gate
Expert Destructive Magic

Army:

Familiars, Horned Overseers, Cerberi, Succubi Mistresses, Nightmares, Pit Lords, Arch Devils

Enemy Armies:

Sylan units

Ok First thing first. Gate your cerebi and Overseers right next to the hunters and druids. If they die, so be it, they are just to help prevent the ranged from being ranged. Next do to the druids, do not have any units near any other if at all possible (stone spikes). Now that that is out of the way, you may want your teams first actions to be gating. Extra units are always nice. Most likely they will turtle the hunters/druids. If so metor shower might be helpful (from Pit lords or yourself). Or implosion on the druids would be good also. If they send the dragon to your side (and they just might) soak up its retal with demons (the least useful creatures you have) and then hit it with everything you got besides spells. Now your gated units as soon as they appear (especially if you got them right next to a range unit) should do as much damage to that range unit as they can. (not that if surrounded the demons should explode). Any attacks that have no retal are great. Meanwhile if your succubi mistress is not next to the dragon (put her in your first slot and the dragons might not reach her) aim for the ranged unit that is most dangerous (the resulting chain will do a good job) keep her open for ranged if possible.

Now spells, if they group up close, meteor shower or implosion. If they are spread out, Chain Lightning (again starting with the ranged unit that poses the biggest threat). If you have master of storms chain lightning them anyhow (even if this will hit your own gated troops, remember they are just fodder). If you have the cold mastery then ring of frost probably is your best bet. Unless it is needed for another skill, don't take master of fire..but if you do then perhaps fireball (which would lower the defense of them also) would be good. After everything is gated use arch devils (if any left) to raise units as pit fiends if any stacks dies..pit lords to meteor shower first then melee. Remember to soak up the dragons retal with demons (as long as they last) or familiars before hitting them with your heavier troops.

[asandir]

I've got one really, really important thing to add, I think on mission 1 or 2 of this campaign you get to choose a spell as the mission bonus, if you pick phantom forces it will makes things go a lot better for you, if you did not pick this spell I suggest you go back and try again and get it, if you have it, then use it copiously, it's not quite what it used to be, but still very handy to have!

[DaemianLucifer]

Speed is of the essence in almost every campaign mission.In this one in question,rush the upper sylvan town,then rush the demon town,repel the demon armies(this all can be done in the first week,so youll benefit from buying a weeks production of infernal units,thus defending a city will be easy).Then rush the remaining two sylvens.Key is to lure them to fight you while you are in the city.If you have phantom forces (ab)use it as much as you can.I passed this one with expert dark,and it was a breeze(agrael slowing enemy+casting slow=they never act ),but it can be done with just destruction.Get your hands on master of ice or storms,and youll see how those annoying hunters and druids wont bother you ever again.

[The Mad Dragon]

Well, as it stands, I am screwed. There's 1 Sylvan army that has a horde of Emerald Dragons, and the other has a huge army.....

[DaemianLucifer]

By what you wrote,you didnt play fast enough.You can,more or less,beat them long before you get your archdevils.