Does this really work for the turn-based strategy fan???

[bob1760]

I really think that Heris V has lost its connection to the what I, a turn-based strategy fan, is really looking for. I play turn based because I want to take the time to make strategy. As such I want simple and easy access to as much information as possible. I want to be able to see the playing field and everything on it as clearly as possible. Heroes V's 3D graphics and poor user interface take all of that away. Take the 3D. When I am playing the game I don't need to feel like I am travelling over realistic landscape. I want to know where I am and where everything else is. That's all that matters to strategy making. And the interface requires way too much mousing around. Label stuff. I don't mind having words all over the screen, I'm not alergic to them. Mouse-overs that disappear when you move don't really help. I want to be able to compare two or more things without flashing my mouse back and forth. The key is letting the gamer use their mind to play the game and not waste it finding the information they need or figuring out where they are on a map.

You get the picture. Loose the 3D and anything done with the interface will be an improvement.

But just to show there are no hard feelings and that I'm a long time fan of the series. I'll pay full price for another copy of the game if they came up with a good 2D game: a strategy lover's edition.

[Wolfshanze]

IMO, it's not bad... I think the switch to 3D is overhyped as a problem... frankly, I see little differance in the 3D interface compared with the old 2D versions. Oh sure... TECHNICALLY it's a big turnover, but "to me", it still feels mostly the same.

Hardware requirements definately skyrocketed over past versions, but if you have the horsepower, the change in interface isn't that bad in my opinion... your mileage may vary.

Give it a shot... it's a good game. Mods are starting to roll out quickly too, so it would seem easier to modify then past games.

[Mowie666]

I agree with the poster.. Little things like it taking longer (I still have a pretty good machine) for my dude to move across map ( I turn the speed right up), plus having to rotate the map to see what things are.. I know maybe I'll get used to it, but the 3d just turns me off..


Still love the game, just don't see what the 3d fuss is about..

[asandir]

well i like the 3d, for me its really a very similar game with prettier graphics .... so what's not to like?

[Belmarduk]

I'd like the 3d better if it didn't kill my system. Considering the game uses very few modern graphical effects (post-processing, heavy particle effects, etc) then it should be able to run smoothly on a wider range of systems - it dosen't. It's another example of a failure to optimize when presented with the modern gaming market. Even more damning is the fact that you can't turn off some of the biggest slowdowns in the game - such as viewing actions on the upper level of a map when you're on the lower level, for example, or following the movement of enemy heroes. While these are usually a tactical necessity, for the most part I can follow what a hero is doing by watching the dots on the mini-map - I don't need the huge amount of system lag as my camera zooms over to the hero, or loads trhe entire underground and THEN zooms over to the hero.

[Wolfshanze]

The more I think about it, the more I think your opinion of the 3D interface is almost directly tied-in to your system hardware.

Folks with GeForce-6 and higher probably like it more then folks with GeForce-5 and earlier equipped systems. I have a GF 6800GT in my system and have no problem with lag... but I imagine if it was chunky and hard to get around I would like the game a lot less!

One thing is for sure... they could have/should have optimized this game more... even on high-end systems this game seems to take more horsepower to run smooth then it should, given the graphics. It's not like Doom-3, FEAR or FarCry graphics!

[Extrakun]

Part of the problem seems to be the LUA scripts.

While they makes the game extremely flexible, LUA scripts must be interperted on the fly, not complied, and hence this degrades the speed slightly.

But from the reviews (especially 1UP), where it says that at certain angle the game will lag), I believe that its an inefficent culling/hidng algorithim which causes the problem...

I really have no idea why they think a game like HoMM needs to be in full 3d. Age of Wonders II did pretty well with a 2d/3d hybrid (though the unit sprites can be prettier). However, nowadays publishers are unwilling to publish anything that isn't 3d...

[DaemianLucifer]

I have GF5600,yet I have no lag on highest settings.But I still have the problem with 3D.Its simply bad.There is no need for all this rotating.A simple few degrees upwards would solve the prbolem with a nice top down view.Or transparent objects.Or taging objects.Lots of ways to deal with the dumb camera we have now.And the interface is bad.Really bad.Diminishes the gameplay a lot.

[Wolfshanze]

I think the game would be better if it had a "Camera Lock" button... not one that prevents you from rotating the camera (you need it to see around stuff), but rather one that prevents elevation changes... in other words, if you've got the camera at a good "top-down" look (for good frame rates), you should be able to LOCK that view-angle into the camera and prevent it from inadvertently dropping to a lower (and lag-enducing) camera angle when you rotate.

That would be a GREAT feature/add-in.

[Gaidal Cain]

Even more damning is the fact that you can't turn off some of the biggest slowdowns in the game - such as viewing actions on the upper level of a map when you're on the lower level, for example, or following the movement of enemy heroes. While these are usually a tactical necessity, for the most part I can follow what a hero is doing by watching the dots on the mini-map - I don't need the huge amount of system lag as my camera zooms over to the hero, or loads trhe entire underground and THEN zooms over to the hero.

If you start rotating your camera during the AI's turn, it'll remain fixed at it's current position. Don't think it'll speed things up much though.

[Purple Sky]

I agree about the graphics. I think there should be a 3D/2D hybrid instead.

However, im quite sick of this elitist bashing on HoMM V.

[Ethric]

However, im quite sick of this elitist bashing on HoMM V.

You saying people bashing H5 are an elite?

And I too agree with the original post. The objects on the adventuremap in HoMM has never been realistically proportioned. And nor is it in H5, but it seems they have aimed to increase the level of realism in proportions. Don't know if they have had it as a specific goal of course, but that is the appearant result. Added with 3d and sparse use of colour and contrast, it takes to much time just to see where stuff is and where you are going.

Having it 3d seems to me to be a result of the marketing-thought "3d is good, 2d is outdated". But HoMM isn't an FPS or similar, for which the previous sentence must be said to hold true. I for one think the game would have been better if they had made it in 2d. Very good 2d of course

[ThunderTitan]

However, im quite sick of this elitist bashing on HoMM V.

We'll try to get some uneducated people to bash on it. Give us some time.


3D/2D isn't the problem. The problem is how it affects gameplay. Unfortunatly most of the time the question they ask themselves is "how can I make this more SHINY" instead of "how can I make it SHINY without affecting gameplay".

[Wildbear]

Unfortunatly most of the time the question they ask themselves is "how can I make this more SHINY" instead of "how can I make it SHINY without affecting gameplay".

Shouldn't the question be "how could I make this so it improves the gameplay"?

[ThunderTitan]

Shouldn't the question be "how could I make this so it improves the gameplay"?

My standards have dropped considerably as of late.

[gangel269@yahoo.com]

I definitely agree with the general tenor of the criticism in this thread - the 3D graphics are pretty, but the developers just haven't had enough time or experience in making them work well in a turn-based strategy environment.

It's too easy to see critics of the turn to 3D graphics as being technological atavist which just don't like change or who have computers that can't handle the higher demands of 3D. HOMM 5 runs without noticeable lag on my system, except when I zoom out to highest level or when there are a bunch of tall trees in my view, but I still find problems with it.

My preferences as a turned-based strategy player are for:
- easy access to lots of information and statistics on which to base my decision
- time to weigh and calculate when I need to, unlike in C&C or Warcraft, where I have to frantically click and point and move while opponent is doing the same (sorry, I don't play RTS, so my references are dated)
- the ability to vary the pace of game: I should be able to take as long as I need for my turn when decision are complicated, but I should also be able to rip through turns very quickly when all I have to do is ascertain that certain parameters remain unchanged and I just need to keep on doing what I'm doing with my towns and heroes, or just move my hero around while doing nothing with towns, etc.

HOMM 1-3 kept getting progressively better for my tastes, because the interface and gameplay got more mature (I skipped HOMM 4). That's my problem with the new 3D interface: it gets in the way of these things. The developers have clearly put a lot of time into pretty graphics - look at how much detail there is in the camera-views when you zoom in close, either on adventure maps or even in towns, where you can see architectural niceties on your structures. Great, but where was the time spent on deciding how best to keep the great gameplay aspects and interface maturity of the HOMM series?

In short, I agree with what has generally been said in this thread. Still, I guess the problem is mainly time - moving HOMM into the age of 3D graphics is basically a major port, and I expect most of these issues will get fixed in the next iteration. Off the top of my head, though, I don't know yet of any 3D turn-based strategy games that has overcome these issues.

[Wolfshanze]

Off the top of my head, though, I don't know yet of any 3D turn-based strategy games that has overcome these issues.

The Combat Mission series of turn-based WWII strategy games have all handled the 3D environment quite well... and the 3D in those games are implemented in a complimentary way to the game.

[DaemianLucifer]

Off the top of my head, though, I don't know yet of any 3D turn-based strategy games that has overcome these issues.

Myth did that years ago quite well.So did homeworld.And galciv.

[Wolfshanze]

Off the top of my head, though, I don't know yet of any 3D turn-based strategy games that has overcome these issues.

Myth did that years ago quite well.So did homeworld.And galciv.

Homeworld and Myth are turn-based? I thought they were RTS? I'm getting old!

[DaemianLucifer]

Homeworld and Myth are turn-based? I thought they were RTS? I'm getting old!

Ups,my bad.I didnt read the turn part.But still,you could pause the homeworld.