Random Thoughts - Second Edition

[Lord Lakely]

Well there's a D&D online alignment test here. I remember taking this a few years ago and I got True Neutral. Now I retook it and got Chaotic Neutral

I'm curious what you'll get Lakely (if you have the time, that is)

No need Ashie. Already did that one: Chaotic Good.
A chaotic good character acts as his conscience directs him with little regard for what others expect of him. He makes his own way, but he’s kind and benevolent. He believes in goodness and right but has little use for laws and regulations. He hates it when people try to intimidate others and tell them what to do. He follows his own moral compass, which, although good, may not agree with that of society. Chaotic good is the best alignment you can be because it combines a good heart with a free spirit.

[Borsuc]

you say he wouldn't steal from someone and that he is arrogant, that makes him Lawful Evil (Lawful Neutral could work probably as well), definitely not CN.

I think you have difficulties understanding what the quote means. Lawful Evil most certainly steals, but by trickery, unless he has some obligation towards that person or a promise. Stealing is not only "classical" method.

However, when I was saying that a Chaotic Neutral doesn't steal, it means that he doesn't steal at all when he is not "allowed" to. Otherwise it wouldn't be neutral. All kind of looting from "sacred" places or directly in front of people will result in evil points, in Nwn for example (and I'm sure in D&D too). Face it.

A Neutral Evil can even backstab or steal directly from beggars or in front of people (as long as he knows he won't get caught). Take a thief or a bank robber. Most of the times they are "evil" (let us say they only do it for themselves). You won't have such Chaotic Neutrals, because they do not embark in such actions since they are neutral. He most certainly doesn't respect others, but he does not "get in their way as he pleases" either. He doesn't just do whatever he likes as long as he ends up well -- that is precisely the Neutral Evil character.

And like I said, this fits Gootch.

[Asheera]

Lawful Evil most certainly steals, but by trickery, unless he has some obligation towards that person or a promise. Stealing is not only "classical" method.

I think you don't know what stealing means

When you use some tricks to get someone's money in a LEGAL way (trick him), it's definitely not stealing

However, when I was saying that a Chaotic Neutral doesn't steal, it means that he doesn't steal at all when he is not "allowed" to. Otherwise it wouldn't be neutral. All kind of looting from "sacred" places or directly in front of people will result in evil points, in Nwn for example (and I'm sure in D&D too). Face it.

lol

Sacred places are different, but 90% of your stealing acts, even from not very rich people, only give you Chaotic points and not evil. You have such a limited experience in this field Chaotic = Stealing. Face it.

All Chaotic characters steal, the reason depends on the Good/Evil alignment

Good -> steals for others (i.e. steals from the rich and gives to the poor, like Robin Hood)

Neutral -> steals for himself

Evil -> steals not only for himself, but also does it intentionally to annoy others. For example, it may steal from the poor just so that they won't have anything more to eat. A CN will not do this, unless he desperately needs some money (but again, he does it for himself and not to make the others starve)

btw:

The Ten Chaotic Neutral Commandments

A list of Ten Commandments for a chaotic neutral religion may look like this:

1. You shall lie to promote your freedom.

2. You shall not kill the innocent.

3. You shall not murder.

4. You shall help the needy if such action promotes your freedom.

5. You shall honor no authority above yourself.

6. You shall break the law whenever convenient.

7. You shall not betray others unless your life is in jeopardy.

8. You shall not aid enemies of freedom or those who promote law.

9. You shall pursue pleasure.

10. You shall promote unlimited freedom for yourself.

Point 6 includes stealing

Also see this page and also read the "Ten Chaotic Neutral Sins" and then tell me if you still think that a CN will not steal for his personal gain.

(for example, there is this sin "6. Following a law when opportunity for mischief, personal gain, or excitement presents itself.")


Your CN definition is too "good". In fact, it's exactly as how true Chaotic Good is. See the 10 CG Sins and Commandments from the same site I posted and you'll see for yourself.

[Sir William S Titan]

Another place with dnd alignment descriptions.

Thieves-Guild.Net

[Kristo]

Cleaned up a very Observatory-like flame war. They racked up over two pages in less than two hours. I thought we agreed not to do that sort of thing anymore.

Please go take a deep breath before posting.

[darknessfood]

@ Kristo: I just said they can talk about this in the Heretic section, because they were talking about some games and stuff... You could better remove the above than my mentioning of that, because I kinda find that removing my post didn't make any sense at all...

[Borsuc]

Hmm not sure if deleting that was the best thing at least 2 of those posts were interesting IMO.

Ok then this simple reply won't turn it into that (there's no further plot along it anyway):

Your CN definition is too "good". In fact, it's exactly as how true Chaotic Good is.

Only that Chaotic Good cares for others and wants them to have the same freedom as he does, Neutral doesn't care if others are enforced as long as he has freedom. Big difference, it's the difference between Good/Neutral in all cases, no "special case for Chaotic Neutral" as in yours

[Asheera]

@Kristo: I'm sorry

I'll avoid this kind of stuff in the future by not arguing with Borsuc anymore.

[Borsuc]

I didn't even start the alignment discussion, you and Lakely did

[Asheera]

Yeah but you had to 'screw up' the discussion (turn it into an Observatory/OSM-like one), like you always do (at HC)

[Borsuc]

Screw up? You mean disagree with you maybe?

And of course it degenerated once I got to use your kind of arguments, because frankly I'm getting tired of "you always say that" from you, so I just HAD for once to use your arguments, see how it's like.

But nvm, this isn't even about alignments anymore, and I already explained this before, so let's drop it before it gets again out of control (for someone who ignores me )

[[T]osHiro]

Enough. Please.

[Pol]

Yes, yes live in peace. Now Asheera will step out and huggle Borsuc and it will be all over.

[Lord Lakely]

Cleaned up a very Observatory-like flame war. They racked up over two pages in less than two hours. I thought we agreed not to do that sort of thing anymore.

Please go take a deep breath before posting.

You haven't seen the HC NationStates thread, believe me, it was much worse there.

[Sir William S Titan]

Glad I didn't check into that thread much.

Nasty little Main. So much trouble you have made, just to be main.

[Asheera]

@Lakely: Can you please stop talking about this now, don't bring it back please (and actually that one at HC wasn't that bad at all, and it was somehow on-topic for that thread)

[Lord Lakely]

Your wish is my command, my dear... but could you please stop poking me with that dagger? It's getting annoying.

[Kalah]

[Sir William S Titan]

Friday night/Saturday morning I had a dream which contained bad graphics in a real life type setting. It was really weird.

[Asheera]

I also had a dream where I could see the polygons' edges (no, not wire-frame, I could see the texture as well... so it was wire-frame + textured)