What's with all of the female units?

[Mlai]

Personally the medieval bondage theme doesn't bother me. Maybe it's because the Dark Eldar of W40K are 50x worse.

[ThunderTitan]

@Mlai


In 40k they at least have tech as an excuse that makes it work (he have shields, why bother putting on armour that slows us down? or this bra is full of cybernetics that give me extra strength etc)

Do you not know what a Moor is?!

Yes, but Moors are from around Morocco, they've got Berber and Arabic Blood in, as well as Black-African.

No, moors was a word the spanish used for most "brown" people...

Snakes don't even have nipples, so I don't see where Coral Priestess gets off, and as for the Glories and Spring Spirits...

Yeah, where does a half snake half human come of having breasts...

Or a spirit that's basically a human with glowing powers (vs angels being humans with wings, and not wheels of fire).

Probably, the values I was brought up with were a bit more in vogue about 50 years back, things like justice, freedom and public decency. Probably makes me a bit of a puritan by today's standards.

And don't forget about institutionalized racism, police breaking peoples arms after putting them in cuffs and women being barefoot and pregnant.

No, for me, boobs work on Sisters and Succubi, and maybe Harpies (though even they didn't always have them, which suggests that modern harpies have a bit of siren in them).

Siren? They where birds with the head of females in the oldest depictions that i recall (vase paintings). Likely it was the other way around, or one of them became like that and the other followed (and over here we call mermaids sirens even).

[MattII]

No, moors was a word the spanish used for most "brown" people...

No, it comes from the Latin Maurus (plural Mauri), which describes the people of the province of Mauretania, with the province being named after the dominant local tribe, the Mauri.

And don't forget about institutionalized racism, police breaking peoples arms after putting them in cuffs and women being barefoot and pregnant.

That was the history of your country maybe, but I don't think New Zealand saw a lot of that, not Britain, though I can't say for sure.

Siren? They where birds with the head of females in the oldest depictions that i recall (vase paintings).

Guess I must have got them mixed up then.

[Slayer of Cliffracers]

Personally the medieval bondage theme doesn't bother me. Maybe it's because the Dark Eldar of W40K are 50x worse.

Even the Dark Eldar don't wear platform shoes into battle. Especially not blood maidens whose entire strategy involves running around very fast.

Such as the Blood Maiden

This kinches the basic problem with the dark elves in Heroes V; someone designed them to be sexy (in a S&M way), at the complete expense of well practicality.

They exceed the Dark Elves of Warhammer and the Dark Elves of 40k because at least they mantain some minimal standard of practicality (although they stretch it).

It's like someone took everything that was wrong with Warhammer Witch Elves/Wyches and then exaggerated what was wrong with them.

[Mlai]

It's one unit in the entire faction, and people are trashing the entire Dungeon for it. Over. Reaction.

I say one unit, because the Matriarch is a magic-user. As such, she can dress as impractically as she wishes.

And this woman must really get your beef...

[XEL II]

I, for one, like Ivy.

[ThunderTitan]

No, moors was a word the spanish used for most "brown" people...

No, it comes from the Latin Maurus (plural Mauri), which describes the people of the province of Mauretania, with the province being named after the dominant local tribe, the Mauri.

Hey look, someone's confusing etymology with usage...

Just look at Othello and what Moor meant when they had someone play him.

That was the history of your country maybe, but I don't think New Zealand saw a lot of that, not Britain, though I can't say for sure.

Yeah, Britain always treated other races with total respect...

Seriously, the americans being more in your face about it doesn't mean you get a free pass, stiff upper lip passive aggressive "we're not europeans". Remember why you're in NZ (civilizing those poor savages)?

Guess I must have got them mixed up then.

Point is everyone does...

[Slayer of Cliffracers]

It's one unit in the entire faction, and people are trashing the entire Dungeon for it. Over. Reaction.

I say one unit, because the Matriarch is a magic-user. As such, she can dress as impractically as she wishes.

Ughhh. Image terrorism!

The two units happen to be the only female units in the Dungeon army so the way they are depicted does matter a lot.

The Matriarch is a magic user thus she can dress as impractically as she wishes: well who taught you to think?

These women have to walk 20-30 miles a day, every single day. Not only that but they have to walk through all manner of hostile terrain, up hills, down hills, through bogs, over rocks etc. They might get to stand still mostly on the battlefield, but that won't save them from this.

Have you ever walked 20 miles before in a single day? It's pretty tough I'll tell you from experiance. And this is wearing normal clothes and normal shoes. Try wearing the kind of "clothing" that the Shadow Matriarch wears and well.... I guess you'd have probably have passed out from blood loss by the time you even got to your 5th mile.

That's if you didn't manage to trip up and break your ankle because with shoes and 'leg armour' like that this is utterly guaranteed to happen if you ever fall over. You would be a casualty before you even got to the battlefield in the first.

[ThunderTitan]

It's one unit in the entire faction, and people are trashing the entire Dungeon for it. Over. Reaction.

Nipples rings on the minotaurs and the Matriarch count too.

And this woman must really get your beef...
[img]http://www.evilcon.net/wordpress/wp-con ... y_sciv.jpg[/img]

At least that game doesn't hide the fact that it's simply cheap fan service...

[MattII]

Hey look, someone's confusing etymology with usage...

To quote from Wikipedia:
"Moors" are not a distinct or self-defined people. Medieval and early modern Europeans applied the name primarily to Berbers, but also at various times to Arabs, Muslim Iberians and West Africans from Mali and Niger who had been absorbed into the Almoravid dynasty.

Just look at Othello and what Moor meant when they had someone play him.

So I'm supposed to believe that the the use of the word hasn't changed it, what, 400 years?

Yeah, Britain always treated other races with total respect...

Down here in NZ, Maori got the vote in 1860, women, not until 1893, so it wasn't that racist. Besides, that racism wasn't part of my history (my parts emigrated here in the 70s), nor my upbringing.

It's one unit in the entire faction, and people are trashing the entire Dungeon for it. Over. Reaction.

Actually, many people were trashing the Dungeon before this issue came up, this is just an extension.

[mr.hackcrag]

Down here in NZ, Maori got the vote in 1860, women, not until 1893, so it wasn't that racist. Besides, that racism wasn't part of my history (my parts emigrated here in the 70s), nor my upbringing.

And then they got their land back?

[MattII]

And then they got their land back?

Here and there, but it's difficult sometimes, because how do you give back a piece of land claimed by 4 different tribes?

[Mirez]

let them fight over it, would make great television

[ThunderTitan]

Hey look, someone's confusing etymology with usage...

To quote from Wikipedia:
"Moors" are not a distinct or self-defined people. Medieval and early modern Europeans applied the name primarily to Berbers, but also at various times to Arabs, Muslim Iberians and West Africans from Mali and Niger who had been absorbed into the Almoravid dynasty.

Just look at Othello and what Moor meant when they had someone play him.

So I'm supposed to believe that the the use of the word hasn't changed it, what, 400 years?

Pretty sure that was my point... that Moor is a general term for north african muslims with perhaps certain more distinct connotations based on the time it was being used.

Yeah, Britain always treated other races with total respect...

Down here in NZ, Maori got the vote in 1860, women, not until 1893, so it wasn't that racist. Besides, that racism wasn't part of my history (my parts emigrated here in the 70s), nor my upbringing.

Pretty sure black people got the right to vote after the Civil War in the US (which in the 1860's or around that too)... and women only got it in the 20th century.

MLK still got shot a century later and guess what happened to his killer.

[MattII]

Pretty sure that was my point... that Moor is a general term for north african muslims with perhaps certain more distinct connotations based on the time it was being used.

Um...

No, moors was a word the spanish used for most "brown" people...

Pretty sure black people got the right to vote after the Civil War in the US (which in the 1860's or around that too)...

1870 actually. I'd call 1860 pretty impressive when you consider that it wasn't even rediscovered (the previous discovery/ies were never followed up) until 1769, and settlement didn't really start until the 19th century (the first colonist child was born in 1815). Things weren't perfect of course, there was still an inbred racism amongst some of the colonists, and the Land Wars in 1860 did the Maori no good, nor did the assimilation or Maori culture.

...and women only got it in the 20th century.

19th century for us down here, 1893 to be precise, although they didn't get to stand for parliament until 1919.

But enough of this, we're getting away from the point. As Prudish as it may seem you, I'm against the sudden rise in the number of pairs of breasts (most of which are exposed) we've got in H6.

[Mlai]

I, for one, like Ivy.

The Nagas should all look like her. And use her weapon instead of goddamn katanas. Then I'll be happy.

These women have to walk 20-30 miles a day, every single day.

And use magic! MAGIC!

You want to start talking about impracticality instead of just design taste? You think heavy cavalry in actual battle ride around with parade tapestry draped on the warhorses that extend down to the horses' knees? You think foot soldiers wear heavy plate on their legs and feet? Oh heck, how about helmets which pretty much blind a flying creature whose most important and acute sense is sight?

Face it, it's the entire game. Not just Dungeon.

[Slayer of Cliffracers]

And use magic! MAGIC!

You want to start talking about impracticality instead of just design taste? You think heavy cavalry in actual battle ride around with parade tapestry draped on the warhorses that extend down to the horses' knees? You think foot soldiers wear heavy plate on their legs and feet? Oh heck, how about helmets which pretty much blind a flying creature whose most important and acute sense is sight?

Face it, it's the entire game. Not just Dungeon.

Yes but the Dungeon has a particularly extreme example while the only serious practical difficulty that has any merit is the imperial griffon heavy armour that appears no to allow the griffon to see.

Yes the knights do rise around with 'parade tapestry', because that is armour for the horses, you'll find that real medieval knights did ride around with horses armoured in that 'parade tapestry' fashion. The insignia helps identify the knight on the battlefield.

[Mlai]

Oh please. I picked Haven because everyone always raves about how it's the "standard."

Being a foot soldier while wearing full plate on legs and feet is just as bad as wearing platform shoes. At least elves have the excuse of being elves.

I'll give you horse armour. That still makes 2 impractical creatures for 2 impractical creatures.

[Slayer of Cliffracers]

Oh please. I picked Haven because everyone always raves about how it's the "standard."

Being a foot soldier while wearing full plate on legs and feet is just as bad as wearing platform shoes. At least elves have the excuse of being elves.

I'll give you horse armour. That still makes 2 impractical creatures for 2 impractical creatures.

Armour has padding under it Mlai.

http://www.medievalcollectibles.com/c-6 ... rmour.aspx

Real warriors wore leg armour in battle.

[Mlai]

Real warriors ON HORSES.

Foot soldiers do not wear sabatons (metal feet coverings). For an obvious reason: they have to march.

Which is the same reason why foot soldiers do not wear full plate.

Oh and how about the Academy Mages? Matriarchs have a hard time marching because they wear platforms? How about 70 years-old men with bad backs? You suppose they have to march?

Oh, what's that? They use MAGIC?