New H5 RPG/Quest map - Mercenaries - Playtesters needed!

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Franzy
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Unread postby Franzy » 09 Jun 2008, 14:15

- upon travelling through the dwarven tunnels, Brand can see the stairs that must lead down to the cave of the holy grail. But there's no 'rubble' to be seen..
Corrected.
- upon calculating the optimal route, the game does not consider the dwarven tunnel entrance a valid path
Nothing can be done here, unfortunately.
- in some cases, it seems like I am forced to do 'evil' things. Like defeating the guards guarding the blue keymaster tent. I already have the key, the guards are doing the duty appointed to them by the officials of Astarya (probably AURAS), so considering the focus on the distinction between good and evil acts in this map, I would not attack them (I'm trying to be a good guy)
But I have to kill them in order to continue through the canyon.
You are not given dark points for this, don't worry.
- it could be a nice effect if the 3 stacks of 'praying' gargoyles combine into 1 when the player engages 1 of the stack.
Nice idea. Will do it!
- a skeleton gives me the boots of the swift journey. I know that artifacts are random and all, but I think (if that is even possible in H5) that key quest artifacts should be 'disabled'.
Already did it.
- When nearing the Ancient Temple, the 'new objectives' icon appeared, but it was not immediately clear for me that it concerned the 'Find the Shield' objective. A little floating text "Whoa! The Temple gates are open!" or something like that, would make things more clear
Agree, will do that too.
- the mummies want me to prove my worth, but this is easily the easiest fight in months. I just fought 300+ lich masters and 300+ death knights in room 1 and now face a whooping 15 mummies in room 2 :)
If you get there earlier, there will be less difference :)
- tomb of the warrior holds the Unicorn Horn Bow, another key artifact
Holy random. And the bow is not a quest artifact.
- near Jonna's ship; the 'new objective' icon appears, but with so many open objectives, it is unclear which. A little floating text would help
Maybe... Will do that too probably.
2. I'm a bit confused. The dwarves speak of 'Undar', but I thought I was after 'Rogvar'?
No, no. It was another dwarf looking for artifacts. And the text clearly states he died :)
- it would be nice if the treasure chest in the king's tomb held more gold/experience. Like the bigger resource piles
Right. Forgot to do that.
- Sailor's Guild does not light up blue after finding Jonna's ship
Well, it should not. Blue light only shows when there is a new quest available.
- upon visiting the Cleric of Light:
1. the text asking if I want to learn (L)ight magic interferes with the (W)ife texts in the order: [WWLWL]
Right, it's not good. Will correct it.
2. Noble me decided to give a part of my (life) experience to resurrect the sailor. Text said that I would lose a random 1-3 levels of each skill. I lost nothing.
Corrected.
- just before Brand's brother stepped out of the portal, a caravan with reinforcements arrived. So now the next days start with the "some of your caravans might not reach destination" message which seems odd since Brand and his brother are supposed to be allied
There should be no caravans after Haegar arrival at all. Will check it out...
1. gold was an issue in a few days in week2. And only then.
In the new version mercenaries will require a lot more gold. First, fees are difficulty-dependent. Second, they increase randomly from time to time.
2. amount of artifacts a bit too high for convenience. Tend to clog up the inventory
Well, I believe it's good when you have a large choice what to equip :)
3. balance is ok to a point. There were some challenging fights to keep the interest. I think some more mixed neutral stacks would make things more fun
Done already.
4. though the mercenary concept was fun; I ended up using little.
- arcane archers in week 2 only, and stuffed into some garrison after that
- 50 something zombies on 1 specific day ;)
- 9 sprites for convenience against slow walkers
- and at some point late in game, 15 mummies were stuffed in my ranks
- most of the map was cleared with stalkers only. I think the game would be a lot better balanced if stalkers could not be recruited
You've made it all through with only 150 stalkers? Nice :)
5. if it is supposed to be functional, the memory mentor was located too far into the game imo. The player will have either 3 or 4 artifacts when being able to reach it (4 is more likely as players tend to postpone ocean travel), so most if not all of the game will have been played. I think an island in the sea would be a better location.
No, it was intentionaly placed in hard-to-reach location. Don't want to encourage players to change skills too often.
6. Thanes were being caravaned to my town in the final 1 or 2 weeks of play. Could be sooner I think. I never used any dwarven units in any battles (though I was running around with 100+ berserkers) and several lvl6 dwarven units earlier in game might have changed that (a bit)
Caravaned troops are difficulty and random dependent. Thanes are for those who stuck in the game for too long :)

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wimfrits
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Unread postby wimfrits » 09 Jun 2008, 18:37

Franzy wrote:
- in some cases, it seems like I am forced to do 'evil' things. Like defeating the guards guarding the blue keymaster tent. I already have the key, the guards are doing the duty appointed to them by the officials of Astarya (probably AURAS), so considering the focus on the distinction between good and evil acts in this map, I would not attack them (I'm trying to be a good guy)
But I have to kill them in order to continue through the canyon.
You are not given dark points for this, don't worry.
I thought I wouldn't. But it still doesn't feel right. I'm trying to be a good guy after all. How about widening the passage 1 tile, so that the player can choose whether or not to engage the stacks?
No, no. It was another dwarf looking for artifacts. And the text clearly states he died :)
I probably missed that part. I thought it was exceptional that there was 1 other dwarf in Astarya. It now kind of feels like this:
"Brand was excited and all. Another dwarf! How can this be!
Then it turns out this other dwarf is Brand's sworn enemy. Bummer! Brand has to race to the sunken ruins to prevent his enemy from getting it first!
..oh.. and there was yet *another* dwarf too, but he died."

To me it sounds like there is 1 dwarf too many. I think the presence of a second dwarf takes away from the wonder of having another dwarf in the first place. Perhaps the related quests could be combined?
Well, it should not. Blue light only shows when there is a new quest available.
Aha. Clear.
There should be no caravans after Haegar arrival at all. Will check it out...
There weren't. But a caravan arrived at the start of the day that Brand triggered the arrival of Haegar. So the caravan didn't have time to reach the fortress.
In the new version mercenaries will require a lot more gold. First, fees are difficulty-dependent. Second, they increase randomly from time to time.
Good!
You've made it all through with only 150 stalkers? Nice :)
No, only the stalkers (not the assassins). 20? 25? I forgot.
No, it was intentionaly placed in hard-to-reach location. Don't want to encourage players to change skills too often.
I understand. But still, it currently is more in a doesn't-matter-anymore location. Imo an island in the ocean would be a hard-to-reach location.
Caravaned troops are difficulty and random dependent. Thanes are for those who stuck in the game for too long :)
In that case; the timer for being stuck is flawed :)
Time spent is because I enjoyed completing as much quests as possible; but I assure you, I played in a highly efficient way.
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Unread postby Franzy » 18 Jun 2008, 11:45

Well, the new version is almost finished. I only need to playtest it for new possible bugs and check new balance.

Unfortunately, there will be no refined English version, as the guy who volunteered to edit English texts apparently backed off. Shame on you, Jay Eisner! You should not promise anything unless you really want to do it.

So I only corrected the spelling and grammar errors Wimfrits pointed at. There still may be others :) Because of non-linearity only about 30% of texts can be viewed during one map run.

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Unread postby wimfrits » 18 Jun 2008, 15:49

Great!

I just thought of one other thing:

the current setup of the map favors developing Destructive Magic. After all, more than 1 magic is sort of a waste of a skill slot, Brand starts with DM and there's no early opportunity to unlearn DM.

I think play would be more varied by 'allowing' other magic paths. By unlearning DM through an early quest perhaps, or maybe an early 1-time accessible memory mentor.
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Unread postby Franzy » 18 Jun 2008, 18:35

I don't think in Mercenaries player can survive without Destructive Magic... In the early half at least. As for stalkers + DM ubertactics I came up with idea :) Players who use it won't enjoy easy life for too long ;)

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wimfrits
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Unread postby wimfrits » 18 Jun 2008, 19:49

Franzy wrote:I don't think in Mercenaries player can survive without Destructive Magic... In the early half at least.
Right. DM was of great help in conquering the fortress town; and in certain battles against ranged units. I think summoning magic could be just as good; if not better, provided the player has access to the right spells. Light or dark would be kind of a problem early game.
As for stalkers + DM ubertactics I came up with idea :) Players who use it won't enjoy easy life for too long ;)
Nice!
DM played only a little part in that btw. Triple flaming runic ballista did most of the work ;)
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Unread postby Franzy » 20 Jun 2008, 18:43

OK, the new (hopefully the last) version is out. Includes:
- Corrected all reported bugs
- Fees are now difficulty-dependent.
- Fees now randomly increase from time to time. More often on higher difficulties.
- Alignment rebalanced. It's overall harder to gain Light points.
- There is now a limit of 100000 Gold your hero can carry.
- It's more difficult to restore the fortress.
- Slavery rebalanced.
- Various small improvements
- Now in English and in Russian. German version will be released later.

Download here:
http://rapidshare.com/files/123824673/M ... 2.zip.html

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Unread postby Mystic Phoenix » 20 Jun 2008, 22:22

Sounds promising. I will soon try it out.
Franzy wrote: - Now in English and in Russian. German version will be released later.
I just want to emphasize that I'm willing to finish the project. More than half of the translation is already done by now, but now exams are coming. However, there is a good chance that I will have finished it in Mid July.
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Unread postby wimfrits » 21 Jun 2008, 05:49

Franzy wrote:OK, the new (hopefully the last) version is out
Congratulations! An improved version of an already high quality work. That should be good.
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Unread postby Mystic Phoenix » 22 Jun 2008, 10:12

Triple flaming runic ballista did most of the work ;)
I have tested new version a little bit. I am about halfway through and wimfrits is right. I didn't need a single mercenary so far and suppose I won't.

Either war machines should be completely banned if possible or you should give Brand some skills which prevent him from learning this deadly skill combo.

Edit: Finished the map only using dwarven troops and ballista.
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Unread postby Franzy » 23 Jun 2008, 09:35

Unfortunately, there is no way to ban a skill in H5 :( At least, none known to me.
There only solution is to fill all the slots with predefined skills - but this kills all the fun of hero development.

I have an idea of destroying hero's ballista once in a while... But I don't think I can find a reasonable explanation for the player why I am doing it :)

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Unread postby wimfrits » 23 Jun 2008, 09:40

War machines could also require a daily (maintenance) fee, like mercenaries.
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Unread postby Franzy » 23 Jun 2008, 09:46

In that case (since playr can win only with a balista and dwarves) a ballista should "ask" something like 10 grand a day, yeah?

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Unread postby wimfrits » 23 Jun 2008, 11:24

I think it should be damage-dependent. Is it possible to:
- increase daily fee for each level of war machine skill, ballista perk, triple ballista, runic war machines and flaming arrows?
- increase fee during the course of game (as player becomes stronger). The random increase would be fine.

As for the exact amount; I think it should be related to what damage ranged creatures could do. If I'm not mistaken, my 13 initiative ballista did around 500 damage per shot later in game; so 1500 damage total.
You could check how much master hunters a level 25 Brand with archery needs to deal 1500 damage to a medium enemy, then correct for the initiative difference and see what their daily fee is. Then divide by 8 and charge 1/8 for possession of a ballista + 1/8 for each of the 7 ballista enhancing skills.
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Unread postby Franzy » 23 Jun 2008, 13:12

I don't think I can came up with resonable explanation for charging this much for ballista :) I'll check if I can change skill probabilities without making the map a mod.

Edit: no, can't be done :( Only via a mod.
I came up with another idea. Siege weapons are slow. What if having a ballista will reduce hero's movement points by 50%?

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Unread postby wimfrits » 23 Jun 2008, 15:03

Franzy wrote:I don't think I can came up with resonable explanation for charging this much for ballista :)
Ballista needs crew. A good crew makes for a stronger ballista. The better the crew (more ballista skills), the higher their fee. Sounds plausible to me.

Movement reduction also sounds plausible, though I'd better like the ballista fixed by a daily fee.
50% is quite a lot though; I would think somewhere between 10-20%.
Last edited by wimfrits on 23 Jun 2008, 15:06, edited 1 time in total.
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Unread postby Franzy » 23 Jun 2008, 15:04

20% is too little since you don't have other heroes to compete with :)

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Unread postby wimfrits » 23 Jun 2008, 15:08

Franzy wrote:20% is too little since you don't have other heroes to compete with :)
You have the map to compete with. The faster your hero moves, the smaller the armies. One of the strongest armies I faced was an army of 79 phoenix. Encountered in very late game. If my movement was halved, that army would have grown to be what..? 200 phoenix?
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Unread postby Franzy » 23 Jun 2008, 15:48

Well, I think it will be 25% reduction, plus the ballista will break once in a while :) This way player can still use ballista against powerful enemies, but won't be able to rely solely on it.

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Unread postby Mystic Phoenix » 23 Jun 2008, 17:19

That seems to be a good idea. Thumbs up!

Another idea wold have been to simply ban the blacksmith in town (you don't really need it, do you?) and replace the adventure map site where you can buy war machines with something different. First aid tent isn't really needed, anyway and for supplying archers with unlimited ammo you can give tree born quiver somewhere on the map.
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