Renagades as Alternate Upgrades?

[ThunderTitan]

Jeez, let's just pretend that they're not ever together in one town, but we get to play with both anyway cause it's fun, but not canon.

[captain of haven 3]

well if so many people are opposed to the renegades how bought they post some ideas for new haven troops

[Corribus]

Jeez, let's just pretend that they're not ever together in one town, but we get to play with both anyway cause it's fun, but not canon.

Something crazy is going on. That's like at least twice today that I actually agree with something you wrote. Weird.

[Omega_Destroyer]

ARRRGGGHHHHH!!!!! THE END IS NIGH!!!!

[Corribus]

ARRRGGGHHHHH!!!!! THE END IS NIGH!!!!

Don't worry, O_D, I'm sure he'll post something crass, sarcastic and juvenile in no time, which will make this horrid nightmare go away.

[Omega_Destroyer]

We can only hope.

I just don't see what the big deal is about the Renegades being the alternates. I'm sure the Angry treants don't get along with all the other treants. Furthermore, I doubt the Arch Devils and Demons would be get along either.

[Corribus]

It doesn't really matter to me, either. Atmosphere is created by the mapmaker, not the game makers, and the more choices there are, the more types of atmospheres that can be created. And people interested in multiplayer just care about strategic possibilities, so again: more options, better game. Pretty cut and dry.

[Gaidal Cain]

I disagree that names are just names. It is the Holy Griffin Empire.

Ever heard of the Holy Roman Empire of the German Nation? It was neither holy, roman nor a nation...

[-thing]

Sure the Renegades were Biara's henchmen in the campaign, but we have to wait and se what happens to them after Biara is defeated. Most of the units are credible to see in the Haven line-up anyway, for example Crossbowmen have new technology, Vindicators use more offensive fighting techniques and Champions are just elite cavalry without priestly training. For all we know Nival COULD change the unit names and descriptions to something more fitting since with all propability they won't be changing the models.


...though "Nival+good touches+COULD" is an equation that hardly answers true.

[Grumpy Old Wizard]

I disagree that names are just names. It is the Holy Griffin Empire.

Ever heard of the Holy Roman Empire of the German Nation? It was neither holy, roman nor a nation...

Be that as it may, the Haven is presented as being a holy town, the Griffin Empire is presented as being the Holy Griffin Empire, worshiping the Dragon of Light. Either Nival is going to stick to the world they created or they are not. If they aren't going to be consistant they shouldn't bother with creating a story and background for the towns.

GOW

[watcher83]

We wouldn't have this discussion if we couldn't mix the line-ups
then we would choose between
peaceful elves - angry,vengefull elves
followers of light - fanatics
shadow followers - demon corrupted dark elves
..........

[Apocalypse]

peaceful elves - angry,vengefull elves

What makes you think the normal elves are more peaceful than the others?

shadow followers - demon corrupted dark elves

This is different... they are NOT the opposite (demons and dark elves are both evil)... and, why you say they are Demon Corrupted?

followers of light - fanatics

This is totally wrong...


Plus, what's so cool about the Fallen Angel, Crossbowman and so on..? What's so cool about Life Drain and No Range Penalty?

[Orfinn]

Quote:
followers of light - fanatics

This is totally wrong...

No it fits well, the blues are normal belivers in good, but the red renegades affected by demon hatred pushes the belief in a fanatical directon. No need to worship demonic beings when you can get power and tyranni over others through a supposed good faction. Its like a wolf in sheep wool. The renegades may have taken inspiration from demons but uses their fanatical craziness to corrupt and manipulate the Haven itself.

[Apocalypse]

In Septerra Core (a game), Doskias is one of the chosen (of Marduk - the God's son). Thus, The Chosen are supposed to be good, but Doskias gets Gemma's blade (Gemma = Demon) and says something like: "I shall use the very forces of darkness to fight for light"... It seems Doskias is like the Renegades

But he proved to be the main villain in the game, you know

[PhoenixReborn]

Be that as it may, the Haven is presented as being a holy town, the Griffin Empire is presented as being the Holy Griffin Empire, worshiping the Dragon of Light. Either Nival is going to stick to the world they created or they are not. If they aren't going to be consistant they shouldn't bother with creating a story and background for the towns.

GOW

At this point I'll point out that this whole argument is fan speculation and that we've heard nothing from nival on the alternates being new or renegade. We'll know when they release the creature line-up within the next month.

I know you guys know that point, I'm just trying to remind everyone that the premise (renegades are alternates) is not necessarily true.

[Corribus]

Be that as it may, the Haven is presented as being a holy town, the Griffin Empire is presented as being the Holy Griffin Empire, worshiping the Dragon of Light. Either Nival is going to stick to the world they created or they are not. If they aren't going to be consistant they shouldn't bother with creating a story and background for the towns.

Yeah because there are no examples in our own history of nations/organizations that claimed to be "holy" or based on allegience to a "good" deity, only to have ruthless, evil, greedy, or despotic undertones or microfactions at certain times.

(Catholic Church, anyone?)

[Omega_Destroyer]

You beat me to the punch Corribus.

[King Imp]

Plus, what's so cool about the Fallen Angel, Crossbowman and so on..? What's so cool about Life Drain and No Range Penalty?

Try playing with that unit and you will see. They are very powerful in combat.

[Omega_Destroyer]

Haven't you used Vampires and Sharpshooters before Apocalypse? Life stealing and No Range Penalty are two of the best abilities units can have.

[Grumpy Old Wizard]

Be that as it may, the Haven is presented as being a holy town, the Griffin Empire is presented as being the Holy Griffin Empire, worshiping the Dragon of Light. Either Nival is going to stick to the world they created or they are not. If they aren't going to be consistant they shouldn't bother with creating a story and background for the towns.

Yeah because there are no examples in our own history of nations/organizations that claimed to be "holy" or based on allegience to a "good" deity, only to have ruthless, evil, greedy, or despotic undertones or microfactions at certain times.

(Catholic Church, anyone?)

Ok, I'm not Catholic and won't comment on whatever views someone might have of the Catholic Church or what someone might have done in the name of Catholicism that was not according to Catholic dogma and this discussion does not need to go into religion bashing.

The fact is not only does Nival say the Griffin Empire is holy ("The Holy Griffin Empire") but certain units are undeniably holy. The priests are priests of the Dragon of light. The paladins are holy warriors of the Dragon of Light. The angels are incarnations of the Dragon of Light. They are in fact holy.

There is no way that any of those units would accept others who have forsaken the Dragon of Light. Paladins, priests, or angels in the same army with Fallen Angels makes no sense.

If Nival decides that renegades are to be the alternate upgrade and they are reduced in power (as they must be since they are overpowered now) there needs to be a hefty morale penalty for mixing renegades with regular haven troops in order to maintain a pretention of consistency and believability. I do hope though that they introduce totally new troops for the alternatives though.

Haven't you used Vampires and Sharpshooters before Apocalypse? Life stealing and No Range Penalty are two of the best abilities units can have.

Cool is one thing. Overpowered is another. Life stealing on a level 7 unit is completely overpowered.

GOW