AI in Heroes of Might and Magic 5 - Nival principles

[Kashrlyyk]

Great, a 70% increase in income. And that is not cheating money?

Yes, but at least now he has to get the money from somewhere on the map.

A town with capitol creates 4000 gold a day. For a heroic AI it would create 6800 gold a day. That is more than two towns can create.
So on very large towns he will get so much money that he can´t spend it.

[ThunderTitan]

A town with capitol creates 4000 gold a day. For a heroic AI it would create 6800 gold a day. That is more than two towns can create.
So on very large towns he will get so much money that he can´t spend it.

Still better then getting money without even needing a town. And it is on heroic.

[MistWeaver]

A town with capitol creates 4000 gold a day. For a heroic AI it would create 6800 gold a day. That is more than two towns can create.
So on very large towns he will get so much money that he can´t spend it.

No. If everything is 3 times cheaper - it is like if AI capitol income was 12000.

[Campaigner]

A town with capitol creates 4000 gold a day. For a heroic AI it would create 6800 gold a day. That is more than two towns can create.
So on very large towns he will get so much money that he can´t spend it.

No. If everything is 3 times cheaper - it is like if AI capitol income was 12000.

Things are not 3 times cheaper. It's 30% of the cost. So it's like he gets 70% more gold instead which is: 4000 * 1.70 = 6800 Or to simplify: 4000 * 0.70 = 2400.
Amount of gold generated per turn with a capitol is 4000 + 2400 = 6800 gold.

[MistWeaver]

Things are not 3 times cheaper. It's 30% of the cost.

30% (33 rather) == 3 times cheaper.
If our "heroic" ai wants to build capitol that costs 10000 it pays 10000 * 0.33 = 3300 i.e. 1/3

[Alamar]

A town with capitol creates 4000 gold a day. For a heroic AI it would create 6800 gold a day. That is more than two towns can create.
So on very large towns he will get so much money that he can´t spend it.

No. If everything is 3 times cheaper - it is like if AI capitol income was 12000.

Things are not 3 times cheaper. It's 30% of the cost. So it's like he gets 70% more gold instead which is: 4000 * 1.70 = 6800 Or to simplify: 4000 * 0.70 = 2400.
Amount of gold generated per turn with a capitol is 4000 + 2400 = 6800 gold.

If I understand how it works [and this is questionable] then I believe that you are wrong.

Example. Lets say a building costs a human player 12,000 gold. If the AI tried to buy it then they'd spend 12000 * .3 which is 3600 gold.

So 3600 AI gold == 12000 human player gold. If a capital generates 4000 gold per day then the AI has the rough buying power of a human with 13,333 gold per day.

[MistWeaver]

If I understand how it works [and this is questionable] then I believe that you are wrong.

Example. Lets say a building costs a human player 12,000 gold. If the AI tried to buy it then they'd spend 12000 * .3 which is 3600 gold.

So 3600 AI gold == 12000 human player gold. If a capital generates 4000 gold per day then the AI has the rough buying power of a human with 13,333 gold per day.

Ppl come on !!

Not 0.3 . Its 0.3333333333

Thus for building that costs 12000 Ai would spend ~4000 which is three times less.
So it is equal of 12000 of capitol income.

[asandir]

Does it really matter that much? the AI gets stuff cheaper, so his cash is worth more than your cash ....

[Alamar]

Ppl come on !!

Not 0.3 . Its 0.3333333333

Thus for building that costs 12000 Ai would spend ~4000 which is three times less.
So it is equal of 12000 of capitol income.

Your own post from page 13 of this thread says 30%.

To quote you:

- From patch 1.2. AI does not receive cheat money. Instead he has cheaper buildings & creatures. From equal on easy till 30% on heroic

Before you jump on people just read your own prior posts.

[Kashrlyyk]

If I understand how it works [and this is questionable] then I believe that you are wrong.

Example. Lets say a building costs a human player 12,000 gold. If the AI tried to buy it then they'd spend 12000 * .3 which is 3600 gold.

So 3600 AI gold == 12000 human player gold. If a capital generates 4000 gold per day then the AI has the rough buying power of a human with 13,333 gold per day.

Ppl come on !!

Not 0.3 . Its 0.3333333333

Thus for building that costs 12000 Ai would spend ~4000 which is three times less.
So it is equal of 12000 of capitol income.

And we are back at the 10000gold/day, that we started the whole discussion with.

And I hate calculating with percentages.

[DaemianLucifer]

And we are back at the 10000gold/day, that we started the whole discussion with.

There is a big difference.10k/day means it gets its money from nowheremthus it can always buy things,capturing its mines and towns makes no difference at all,and week of festivals does nothing to it(I experienced this,and its not pretty).Cheaper things,however,means that you can cripple its economy,although much harder than some humans economy.But it still is possible to do it.

[Kashrlyyk]

And we are back at the 10000gold/day, that we started the whole discussion with.

There is a big difference.10k/day means it gets its money from nowheremthus it can always buy things,capturing its mines and towns makes no difference at all,and week of festivals does nothing to it(I experienced this,and its not pretty).Cheaper things,however,means that you can cripple its economy,although much harder than some humans economy.But it still is possible to do it.

He gets 12000 gold from one town. In order to cripple his economy you have to take all his towns, but at that point he has lost anyway. So you beat him or not, but I don´t see how you can weaken him with that kind of income.

If the Ai would get a bonus to income dependent on the number of towns he owns, like for 3 towns he gets a 100% bonus, then you could actually weaken him by taking one town. But right now, it is beat him or not. No weakening possible.

[DaemianLucifer]

Thats from capitol.But if he doesnt have a capitol,you can weak him.This way you ensure that AI will provide a good fight even if his capitol is taken.Not so important in 1 on 1 games,but very important with multiple players.

[MistWeaver]

Your own post from page 13 of this thread says 30%.

To quote you:

- From patch 1.2. AI does not receive cheat money. Instead he has cheaper buildings & creatures. From equal on easy till 30% on heroic

Before you jump on people just read your own prior posts.

Well yes .. I misprinted first time but then I corrected it. (Before you have wrote your post)

30% (33 rather) == 3 times cheaper.

There is a big difference.10k/day means it gets its money from nowheremthus it can always buy things,capturing its mines and towns makes no difference at all,and week of festivals does nothing to it(I experienced this,and its not pretty).Cheaper things,however,means that you can cripple its economy,although much harder than some humans economy.But it still is possible to do it.

Yes. And moreover - we can play on hard .. on hard its not 33.. I presume its about 50..

[Odolwa]

So .. it taken from http://dtf.ru/articles/read.php?id=41841

Read and cry my fellow companions.

How are we supposed to be able to read when it's on russian?

[MistWeaver]

So .. it taken from http://dtf.ru/articles/read.php?id=41841

Read and cry my fellow companions.

How are we supposed to be able to read when it's on russian?

Its just taken from there. And for reading there is translation bellow.

[Odolwa]

Its just taken from there. And for reading there is translation bellow.

Ah, my bad.

Anyway, I fully agree with the rest of you.
Making Nival producers of Heroes was the worst mistake in modern history.

[Alamar]

And we are back at the 10000gold/day, that we started the whole discussion with.

There is a big difference.10k/day means it gets its money from nowheremthus it can always buy things,capturing its mines and towns makes no difference at all,and week of festivals does nothing to it(I experienced this,and its not pretty).Cheaper things,however,means that you can cripple its economy,although much harder than some humans economy.But it still is possible to do it.

Assumming that it takes you a month or more [on heroic difficulty] to start capturing the AI's mines it's already too late because the AI has already fully built everything in their entire Empire. Once that happens if you take every single mine from them they will still be able to buy out all creatures in their castle(s) assuming that they have built a resource silo.

Trying to beat the AI by crippling them economically won't help. Your only chance is to get close enough to them so the AI goes into hiding and waites for you to come by ....

NOTE: If the AI has multiple castles and you take their captial then they can simply build another [probably on the next game day with all the excess funds they have]. In the end you'll never be able to cripple the AI [on heroic] unless you are given the perfect map with which to do so.

[Kilop]

yeah but if he has like 3 castles, taking back his economy can hurt him, and seriously , if AI didn t had an unfair economic advantage, would be a challenge ? So this discussion is pointless, it remembers me the one about irresistible magic

[Alamar]

yeah but if he has like 3 castles, taking back his economy can hurt him, and seriously , if AI didn t had an unfair economic advantage, would be a challenge ? So this discussion is pointless, it remembers me the one about irresistible magic

The AI never HAS to rebuild a captial or anything. The AI could easily buy out all of their castles as long as each castle generated 2K gold per day and there was a resource silo in each one.

Therefore [if you let the AI build up their castles during the first month] then you'll never be able to hurt them economically.