Is this cheating? H2

[Campaigner]

We all do.

[kitcat0]

In this specific case, I was doing it to the AI, so I didn't feel guilty at all. But in multiplayer I would hesitate to do such a thing.. are there some kind of common agreements for online multiplayer? (never played online so far)

Dont hesitate. This is strategy not cheating. And a very good strategy I must add In multiplayer you can not reload and use cheat codes. Sometimes some heroes, towns, spells and artifacts are disabled (it is more about heroes III) and then you know it before you start. But everything else - go for it.

[BoardGuest808888]

I don't think that be cheating, or even exploit. That's strategy, and the opposing side should understand that in the first place.

In strategy game you manage and use all your available resources to achieve a strategic goal, and that means eliminating your opponents.

If you happened to have resources enough to do hit-and-run tactics, a warlock, a lightning rod, and ultimate wand, then the condition just called for it. To do something else is illogical.

Imagine, if you're fighting, and your opponent hit you with his right hand, do you have to return it with exactly same way instead of ducking, using your other hand, kicking, etc ?

Of course, you can make agreements banning certain items, spells, etc. Yet barring that, everything's fair.

[grobblewobble]

Thank you, kitcat. With the Stateman's Quill, you could do something even more evil.

slot 1: 1 champion
slot 2: many fast / very fast archers with high damage (war trolls, mages)
slot 3: 1 champion

Attack enemy hero, cast haste on archers, shoot, surrender on the turn of the last champion. Rehire hero.. etc. With the cost of surrendering reduced to 10%, this could be even more damaging (because it's easier to pull off) than hit-and-run with spells.

But I wouldn't do this in MP unless we have agreed explicitly that such tactics are allowed. Many people think of this as cheap and abusive, and I understand their feelings very well. The point of MP is to have fun together, after all.

[Campaigner]

I'm fairly certain that faster units go first so your champions would go first and then your archers.

There is no specific point of multiplayer. You play because it's fun, but your opponent might think playing competetively is fun and if that's not fun to you, you lose out :p

[grobblewobble]

Campaigner:

First, the champion in slot 1 gets his turn. In that turn you cast haste on the archers. The archers are now ultra-fast or blazing, depending on their old speed. So next, they get a turn. After that the champion in slot 3 gets his turn.

Try it if you don't believe it.

[BoardGuest808888]

And since archers' speed is average (4), with Haste you won't go ultra/blazing fast (7/8) but very fast (6) instead, which means your champion would still move first and you would want to reconsider such harassing

[asandir]

that's what I thought as well .... but in regards to this exploit, well use it if you like against the Ai but set the rules in MP

[grobblewobble]

Guys, please read what I say before posting. I was talking about a group of fast to very fast archers, like war trolls or mages.

By the way, the creature "archer" is very slow not average.

[asandir]

I guess we all read Archer instead of archer

[BoardGuest808888]

Whoops ! Yeah, sorry about that.

I guess I also read archer as an archer. Turns out archer is not an archer but war trolls and magi. But an archer is archer anyway and more related to champion (which is a champion) while trolls and magi are not really archer since they use bowling ball and staff which they used as if they're an archer. So they're also archer

[asandir]

nice one

[gmars3yp]

No way I would consider it even close to cheating, or even cheap. I’d call it clever strategy and good creative thinking. It's thinking outside the box - that's exactly the kind of stuff that differentiates a mediocre player from a good one. Anyone can learn to accrue resources, recruit troops, and attack, but finding ways to earn the advantage over your opponent that step outside these narrow bounds is what you need to be really good. Your opponent should realize that you are capable of doing this and take this into consideration when attacking. Definitely not cheating in my book, in fact winning that way is more honorable in some respects than simply smashing the incoming army via brute force because it is a more creative and clever solution to get out of a tight spot. I say well done!

[PhoenixReborn]

The hit and runner has the upper hand because there is no artifact that prevents retreat.

@Grobblewobble: that's a nice way for a might guy to get a hit and run, as opposed to the usual magic version.

[Deadguy118]

The hit and runner has the upper hand because there is no artifact that prevents retreat.

Shackles of War anyone?

This reminds me somewhat of snaking (powersliding almost all the time to acheive almost a permanent boost) in Mario Kart DS. Some people will defend it as a viable tactic while others will consider it unfair.

[Qurqirish Dragon]

The hit and runner has the upper hand because there is no artifact that prevents retreat.

Shackles of War anyone?

This reminds me somewhat of snaking (powersliding almost all the time to acheive almost a permanent boost) in Mario Kart DS. Some people will defend it as a viable tactic while others will consider it unfair.

Shakles of War doesn't exist in H2, so there is now way to stop a hit-and-run tactic without a faster unit. If the one using it has phoenix or champions, then there is nothing you can do against it, except a large stack of dragons (and you still lose any other creatures you have)

[Darmani]

On the bright side, since Warlocks tend to have poor Knowledge, they'll only be able to do it a few times (unless there's a well or Artesian Spring nearby).

Of course, a few times will still decimate a strong army to weakness.