Secret_Holder wrote:You want evidence. Start with Heroes III, about there is absolutely no evidence in the entire game that the Kreegans have queens, are hive-based and even come from space. All evidence in the game points to the Kreegans emerging from portals to another realm, one of the dwellings is actually explicitly named a "demon gate". The Kreegans come from Infernos, the only comment on the origins of the Infernos is this.
I'm going to be blunt here. Shut up for one, and listen to what's being said.
I've already posted a picture of the Kreegan queen in the Kreegan hive, so you're very wrong on two accounts.
Watch the intro to MM6, you'll clearly see Kreegans are from outer space (if you were from Enroth of course).
No evidence points to them coming from portals. You're screenshot just said they erected a volcano an built a fort. Nothing about portals. So not wrong, but not correct either on this one.
Pleae, play MM6
Shut up and actually listen long enough to figure out that I agree with you that Kreegans originally arrived FROM space. I am tired of writing to people who seem not to have figured out that I do not dispute that the Kreegans arrived in Enroth from space and never did.
I was pointing to the screenshot as evidence to the sparsity of evidence to the origins of the Kreegans in Heroes III. What evidence there is suggests that the Kreegans come from the Inferno cities and that creating a volcano (which cannot be a small act of magic or technology) is key to creating a Inferno city.
This contrasts with Heroes IV where there is ample evidence as to the origins of the Kreegans (in the 'Fiery Realm). This has to be reconciled with Might and Magic lore as to the origins of the Kreegans in an even and fair way.
XEL II wrote:
Horned Demons from Inferno are actually created by Pit Lords (raising demons rom the dead ability). Demon Gate appear to be ame thing as Inferno's portals. Kreegan use them to summon reinforcements to battle (this is adressed to in Inferno's description from Xanthor).
They can temporarily summon Horned Demons from the dead, but that is not the same as creating them permanently which requires a Demon Gate. Horned Demons then are created by Pit Lords from the dead, yet are summoned creatures, which means that those Kreegans much be attuned to necromancy in some way.
They can clearly exploit some kind magical energy caused by recent death to call Horned Demons from (where?). We must assume that both Horned Demons come from the same place and we know that they don't land from space-ships.
Zenofex wrote:
There is such reference, even more than one, though I can not quote them at the moment.
I think that this "gating" thing is getting way too far. The Kreegans could have captured part of the Ancients communication network (the portals in this case), but this does not mean that they can transport reinforcements directly to any outpost they build. Also, the Corak unit in the end of M&M 7 mentions that the portals are inaccessible without control cubes, so it's relatively safe to assume that at least part of the interstellar gates are blocked for the Kreegans. The Demon Gate and the Castle Gate in the Inferno town serve as local portals. The Infernos are bases of operation. The Kreegan population on Colony is limited to what the ships had on board, otherwise the planet would have been overrun quickly and decisively.
The only reference I have to the origin of the Kreegans in Heroes III taken in it's scenario context says precisely that by creating a 'fort' (which in their case is an inferno, but who said the demons themselves use that term?) and a volcano they can call into existence an army. They do not march an army into Erathia and then set up a local fort as a base, they set up the fort AND the volcano and then create an army to carry out their objective (eliminating the gold and green dragons).
These underlings, whoever they are must have spent an awful lot of time and effort on creating this volcano, something that no-one is able to do in the game at all. Years of preparation and planning must have gone into this 'surgical strike', which strongly suggests that the Kreegans aren't able to otherwise reach the vicinity of the Gold Dragon without being intercepted. If they already have an army, why wait so many months in order to 'create' an army in a 'sparsely populated area of Erathia' all the while battling with local militias.
The original Hive-Kreegans were wiped out. But the creatures they wittingly or unwittingly summoned by magical means (I reckon the latter) continued to exist as they were summoned from portals (which is what the Inferno cities are) rather than operating in a normal biological fashion.
These Gate-Kreegans are far more numerous than the original Hive-Kreegans, but are also far weaker.
As for the nature of the portals, the Kreegans I believe have their own parallel network of portals connected to every planet "through" the magma in the middle of the planet. If you look at the "fiery" way that Heroes III and IV devils teleport you will see some visual evidence of this.
In a sense before the Ancients arrived, everything was the 'Fiery Realm' and so at core all things are connected together by what lies "beneath" the Ancients worlds. Only by sending creatures through space is it possible to "crack" the shell and unleash the power of the 'Fiery Realm' (where demons get their power from- Heroes IV) onto the world.
The Ancients knowing this placed defenses around their planets, which while they were not able to in the event of the shell being breached, to utterly eliminate anything that tries to get through (think Might and Magic VIII on a thankfully smaller scale).
However, by ensuring their creatures resemble sufficiently existing creatures (or at best an amalgamation of existing creatures), the defenses can be tricked. The drawbacks of this is that the resulting creatures are weaker than they would otherwise be if the Fiery Realm had complete freedom.
The original Kreegans are stronger (hence immunity to fire etc) and more advanced (high-tech) because the Ancients had not expected the Kreegans to arrive from "above" the planet rather than "below" it.
If they had tried to manifest the same creatures from "below" (through the portals) those creatures would have been swiftly eliminated.
