Last But Not Least, the Haven Tips

[Angelspit]

<i>ShadesOfSandro</i> sends us <a href="/https://www.celestialheavens.com/609">hints and tips for the Haven town</a>, the final section of our little six-part strategy guide. His advices are aimed at the beginner players who want to play a Might faction, since that's what the Haven is best at. The author warns us that experts might not learn anything new, the Haven not being that complex in the first place. As in the other town guides found on this site, you will find an analysis of each creature, a ranking of the heroes and a selection of skills you should look for. Please post your own Haven strategies in the comments.



<center><img src="/https://www.celestialheavens.com/homm5/ ... .jpg"><img src="/https://www.celestialheavens.com/homm5/ ... .jpg"><img src="/https://www.celestialheavens.com/homm5/ ... "></center>



Our next goal is to update the walkthroughs based on patch 1.2 and the Heroic mode, as needed. Again, your feedback for the most troublesome scenarios will be appreciated.

If you would like to take a look at the original page visit this link:
https://www.celestialheavens.com/609

[sezerp]

Good article, nevertheless i throw my 2 cents...



-considering that cost of 1 peasant is 20 gold, 1 gold piece per turn is not so great (by comparison: investments in Town Halls return themselves in just 5 days). It's much nicer though if you can get them free of charge, from external dwellings. Usually if I ever recruit peasants in town, it's to upgrade them into Archers



"unless Irina is your hero then you can use Griffins also"

- I guess you meant "IF Irina is your hero" :-P
Edited on Mon, Aug 21 2006, 09:17 by sezerp

[DaemianLucifer]

-considering that cost of 1 peasant is 20 gold, 1 gold piece per turn is not so great (by comparison: investments in Town Halls return themselves in just 5 days). It's much nicer though if you can get them free of charge, from external dwellings. Usually if I ever recruit peasants in town, it's to upgrade them into Archers

Unless ellaine is your hero.2 gold per turn is much nicer.

[Qurqirish Dragon]

-considering that cost of 1 peasant is 20 gold, 1 gold piece per turn is not so great (by comparison: investments in Town Halls return themselves in just 5 days). It's much nicer though if you can get them free of charge, from external dwellings. Usually if I ever recruit peasants in town, it's to upgrade them into Archers

It doesn't take too long to get peasants to be profitable.
Let's assume that you buy out all the peasants on day 1 of each week, and you build the castle by the end of week 2.
(all entries are on day 1)
Week 1: buy 22 peasants for 440 gold. Net gold: -440
Week 2: earned 154 gold from week 1. buy 22 peasants for 440. Net gold: -726.
Week 3: earned 308 gold from week 2. buy 44 peasants for 880. Net gold: -1298.
Week 4: earned 616 gold from week 3. Buy 44 peasants for 880. net gold: -1484. This is the last week you will have a loss.
Week 5: earned 924 gold from week 4. Buy 44 peasants for 880. net gold: -1440
Week 6: earned 1232 gold from week 5. Buy 44 peasants for 880. net gold: -1088
Week 7: earned 1540 gold from week 6. Buy 44 peasants for 880. net gold: -428
Week 8: earned 1848 gold from week 6. Buy 44 peasants for 880. net gold: +540
So, starting from week 8, you are in a profit.
This also assumes no growth boosts from anything. (External pickups don't count, as you would get them even if not purchasing any)

Now, if you plan on finishing the map faster than 2 months (this depends on the map), then the taxpayer doesn't pay for itself (but, of course, the units are also useful for other things)

With our nice peasant specialist, naturally you recoup the cost faster:
Week 1: buy 22 peasants for 440 gold. Net gold: -440
Week 2: earned 308 gold from week 1. buy 22 peasants for 440. Net gold: -572.
Week 3: earned 616 gold from week 2. buy 44 peasants for 880. Net gold: -756. Last week at a loss.
Week 4: earned 1232 gold from week 3. Buy 44 peasants for 880. net gold: -404.
Week 5: earned 1848 gold from week 4. Buy 44 peasants for 880. net gold: +564

Any game that you anticipate might take you longer than the profit point is one where you should buy all the peasants you can afford, even if you do not eventually upgrade them, and note that if you use any earned tax money beyond the 880 to hire new peasants (they are now paying for themselves) for training, you will start gaining a lot of extra archers/marksmen. It will probably take too long to get enough to train higher economical, but those archers are quite nice.

[asandir]

nice work, covers all the basics and provides some good strategies for the newer members to become proficient in haven



well done

[sezerp]

To Q.Dragon:

Now THAT'S in-depth analysis of Peasants Economy :-)

[Belanor]

Nice composition of this guide. Well done!



But I'm a bit doubtful to this:

"A very fun army to use is 3 stacks of 1 paladin, one moderate size stack of paladins and 3 stacks of archangels"

How do you fit that into the tactical area at the start of a battle?

[DaemianLucifer]

Nice composition of this guide. Well done!



But I'm a bit doubtful to this:

"A very fun army to use is 3 stacks of 1 paladin, one moderate size stack of paladins and 3 stacks of archangels"

How do you fit that into the tactical area at the start of a battle?

It can be done in siege Though you dont have to deploy them all in every combat.Or(more likely)it was a typo.

[ShadeOfSandro]

Yeah it was supposed to say up to 3 stacks of AAs and you don't employ them every battle. I went more in depth in that strat in the Paladin/AA Zerg. But if the BF gets bigger maybe that strat can work with them all on the field.

[DDT]

"Protection is also nice as it adds 15% magic resistance. Magic resistance is crucial to the success of a Haven army if fighting almost any other race."



Actually, there is a mistake here. Protection ability doesn't add any magic resistance. In fact, it reduces damage done to our troops by magic (fireball, lighting, etc.) by 15%, just as the description states.

Also, this strategy guide IMO lacks the "depth" it should have. It contains just the basics - simple list of heroes, units and skills/abilities. 5 abilities for one skill and "whoa, great ability, take it" for all of them, but don't forget - you have to pick up only 3. And there is no coverage of Light Magic spells. Still, it's better than nothing, i guess.

The best strategy guide i've seen so far is the one for dungeon.

[Yendarc]

I have waited long for the guide, and when it finally appears, I'm disappointed. I'd say it's more an information sheet than a strategy guide.

[vhilhu]

i dont understand about the hero Klaus - half the people seem to say he is great, the other half he is pointless. i dont play much as haven and havent got much Klaus from taverns so which is it?

[Caradoc]

I would also take issue with much of the advice given here. Clearly the author has a different view of Klaus than the rest of us. I wonder whether we are playing the same game.



The first recommended strategy requires multiple stacks of Paladins and ArchAngels. How in the world are you supposed to afford all that? In the many games I have played, I've never had more than a few ArchAngels because of the high cost of both the creature and the dwelling. Holding them back as healers seems a waste, especially since they only get the one shot vs. the hero's repeatable Resurrection spell. I also see little advantage in Palladins over Crusaders, and would much prefer to promote more Crusaders rather than spending my gold for Palladins and Angels.



The second uses Master Inquisitors to buff various other armies. Not a bad idea, but why three stacks? That does not leave a lot left to do the actual fighting. I prefer to use my Master Inquisitors to fight.



The third involves sending out only Royal Griffins. This might work against weak neutrals, but would be suicide against a hero or castle. After the first divebomb, the Griffins are sitting ducks. The best tactic for the Royals is to hold them back until the end of the battle, sending them out only in no-retaliation attacks where they can retreat before being attacked. Or when they are able to complete the kill and land in a safe position.



There is no mention at all of using the Marksman, which I believe is the Haven's greatest asset. Unlike Palladins, you can actually afford to mass them via upgrades. Then with the combat bonuses that the hero and artifacts supply, you can make them as effective as Hunters. Castles fall fast under withering bowfire.
Edited on Fri, Aug 25 2006, 15:13 by Caradoc

[Yendarc]

Well, as for Klaus I consider him the most powewrful hero of all. In fact (if supplied with paladins) he wipes out everything, even Vlads 2k of skeleton archers. That's why I also don't understand why the author tells he is useless because of some retaliation strike, which is not worth mentioning at all, comparing to the insane damage Klaus' cav/paladins deal.

[wimfrits]

Well, as for Klaus I consider him the most powewrful hero of all. In fact (if supplied with paladins) he wipes out everything, even Vlads 2k of skeleton archers.

Lol. I (Klaus) had a hotseat duel against my brother (Vladimir) last night. Split up my paladins in 2 stacks. These 2 stacks could each wipe out any of my brothers' stacks in 1 charge. The end fight was an outright slaughter.

[DDT]

Concerning Klaus, he IS powerful. Paladins are the pinnacle of haven army, it's main offensive force, and with Klaus special and that +1 speed leadership ability they can kill just anything. They can compete with tier 7 creatures! He and Dougal are the best Haven heroes IMHO. Especially with right skill selection.

[ShadeOfSandro]

Ok, people please read what the guide says before quoting it out of context. I never said Klaus was useless, I said bRetaliation was useless. I also said Klaus wasn't a bad hero, I just wanted Retal to be more useful.



As for the Pally/AA Zerg it's all about build order and resource management. I usually have my 3 single stacks, and a stack of 6 AAs and 30-50 pallies, (depending on how many external gold mines I could get.)

[wimfrits]

If Retaliation Strike weren’t so useless, this hero might fill a better role in the haven army. Not a bad hero, but others make use of Haven units and abilities better.

I disagree with this part.

In his current state, I think Klaus plays the strongest role in the haven army and I´m absolutely positive that there is no other hero that enhances potential of haven units as much as Klaus does for the paladins.

Doesn´t matter that much though. If Klaus will not be toned down in the next patch I don´t know what will.

[TearofAsha]

Thanks for the guide, it is very helpful to alot of people. I'm sure alot of people have differing opinions about the skills and such, so I just thought I would throw in my 2 cents. I have slightly differing opinion on Luck, Defense and Klaus



Klaus is a big issue right now so I'll explain why he is the best right now. If you go to Multiplayer Hot Seat Duel Mode, pick Klaus vs Raven. Then start by playing yourself, dont move anything, just hit defend until your 14 Paladins turn. Now move the mouse cursor over the Skeletons and you will see 2496-3684 damage. Now quite out by going to the main menu. Now pick Vittorio vs Raven. Dont move anything, just hit defend until our 14 Paladins turn. Vittorio's Paladins only do 901-1352. Same amount of Paladins, but a big difference in damage.



Obviously having a lvl 15 Klaus can double or triple the damage of 14 Paladins, imagine a lvl 35 Klaus with two or three stacks of 20 Paladins. You'll need nothing else in the army but that.



Now if you want to know how well they are 1v1 opponents against tier 6, set up Duel Mode for Klaus vs Orson again. Move the 15 Wraiths (tier 6 same tier as Paladin) to the middle of the grid, then move the 14 Paladins right next to them. Dont attack yet. Your going to check the damage each does to each other, so hit defend for all the others. The 15 Wraiths should be doing 349-416 damage to the 14 Paladins but dont attack just defend until Paladins turn. Now the 14 Paladins will be doing 226-334 without moving, however if you move the Paladins just one space you increase the damage to 310-457. Two spaces is 393-581 so on and so forth until you move in for an attack from the other side (6 moves) your now at 728-1076 damage!



Now you can check Vittorio vs Orson, and do the same as the previous paragraph. You'll see the Paladin go from 205-508 damage to 267-401 damage.



I think that Haven's top Priority of Skills should be



1. Light Magic- Mass spells are very powerful. Mass Haste is a must have. Plus the reduction in Initiative cost for casting a Mass spell. Resurrection is also a must have to replenish your lost units.



2. Leadership- I agree Swiftness is a must have, but Divine Guidance only works on one stack and Mass Haste and Benediction works on all of them. Divine Guidance is very nice for a single stack like Klaus Paladins for example, where the 33% increase to their Initiative will beat out anything else you might cast. But that is a specific situation.



You'll want the high Morale with Leadership for three reasons.



A. Higher Initiative

B. To counter any negative Morale spells, buildings and specials like Banshee Howl

C. To increase damage using Retribution from Attack skill.



The only downfall here is you need Retaliation Strike, Benediction and Adv Counterstrike before picking up Swiftness



3. Attack- If you have Leadership, improve upon that Morale Bonus by increasing the Damage of your units with Retribution.



The downfall to this is if you already have Leadership and went for Swiftness, you'll then need to get Expert Counterstrike and Expert Trainer first before picking up Retribution



4. Enlightenment- At lvl 24 Isabel with Enlightenment and no Defense skill with no artifacts and had the following stats.

20 Attack

23 Defense

9 Spellpower

13 Knowledge



Arch Angels had 51 Attack and 54 Defense under her command. A big boost from 31 Attack and 31 Defense.



That's a strong unit.



5. Defense- An alternative is Luck as your last skill, but I prefer Defense (Logistics if Multiplayer)



Compared to Inferno, Haven has 93 total Defense (total of all upgraded units) while Inferno has only 78. So Defense skill really does help.



At Expert Defense (Just based on Unit Defense not Hero stats)

Squire's will get +3 to Defense

Inquisitors will get +5 to Defense

Imperial Griffon's get +3 to Defense

Paladin gets +8 Defense

Arch Angel gets +10 Defense



This would put Haven at a total of 122 Defense compared to 78 for Inferno who most likely will avoid Defense. Add in the 23 or 24 points you get per unit for having high Defense stats with Enlightenment and you can boost that 122 Defense with another 168 or more for a total close to 300 Defense.



When you pill on the Advantages from skills may aswell combine them for devestating results. With Enlightenment and Defense you basically triple your Defense from 93 to 300. That is why I like this combo.



Haven Heroes will have high Defense stats, if coupled with Expert Enlightenment they will have very high Defense stats, add in Expert Defense skill and Resurrection spell and your Army will be near indestructible.



6. Luck- Its really a player preference here, but Soldier's Luck for Haven is just going to help the Squire's shield ability, unlike other races you only get one unit that it improves. So why bother with this and go for Spoil's of War. Well you'll need Spoils of War very early for it to have the most use, and that means picking up Enlightenment early aswell. Great for the Campaign though.



Altogether if you pick up Luck and Enlightenment in the first 5 levels you can skimp on Defense for that Spoil's of War.



The only thing you are really going to get from Luck here is the Luck boost that can double your damage of your units sometimes. This is a tremendous help for more Attack centric players.



The Magic Resist is nice but Protection is better at reducing AoE and Direct damage spells, increasing Hit Points and reducing Ranged Damage. So this puts Defense in the lead for me.

[Arqane]

Nice guide, although a few points could be debated like you see. Everyone's got their preference in how to play, and I think a few things were missed because they weren't all tested thoroughly (who can do that anyway?) like Klaus.



As for my quick points:



Haven is all about cost effectiveness vs. usefulness. Against neutrals, Haven is the weakest at first. Most other factions can clear powerful neutrals within a couple weeks, but Haven will be losing troops until you power up your hero and towns enough. So, to be the most cost effective and useful that I've found means two things: don't save peasants, and don't upgrade past archers.



Don't save peasants? Yeah, you heard right. Q Dragon had a great breakdown. 8 weeks to turn a profit (don't forget with buying Ellaine, it's still 5-6 weeks). I've taken a Dragon Utopia with every faction by the end of month 1. Computers aren't much behind. While a profit does sound nice, a single artifact will make up the entire profit you'd get by week 10. Use your peasants or the other troops you could afford by not buying them to get that artifact and other resources.



Don't upgrade past archers. Marksmen armies win. Why upgrade past that (please, feel free if you're just doing it to taunt your opponent)? For roughly double the damage (attack power considered), the inquisitor costs alot more than double. The spells can be done by normally bought inquisitors. Paladins are also fine in small numbers, they still get the job done. Squires can be decent on offense, but again... why power up something that's only marginally better at best for more than you can afford?



Of course, there's always reasons to modify your strategy slightly, but I'd stick with those two rules in general.



Also, Vittorio can be very useful, especially in small maps. He is very effective through the first month. That +1 att/level translates to +5 dmg/level (and another potential +5) at Expert War Machines. And most armies can't reliably kill a ballista until week 3, making him especially one of your best defenses against a necro rusher.