List the Underpowered tier 7 Units!!!

[MrSteamTank]

I'd like to see bone dragons get the skeletal ability from homm3(50% ranged dmg reduction) and spectral dragons get the incoorporeal ability(hopefully changed to a 50% physical dmg reduction instead of 50% miss chance). Then to balance it drop their hp by about 25% or so so that the the undead dragons are excellent at soaking regular dmg but bad against spellcasters like druids and magi.

Then bone dragons would be used as a pure anti-ranged flyer(excellent during castle defense for the cost) and spectral dragons would be great shock troops.

[Campaigner]

Obviously by underpowered I mean gold cost efficiency and how difficult they are to get. Sure you can look at something from a global balance perspective by having bad units counterbalanced by weak ones.

Global balance is everything, not just troops. Hero skills & abilities, spells and stats f.e.

Right now the game kind of balances itself by allowing you to buy out the whole towns growth every week so they really only need to balance one towns week growth of units to anothers. Personally this is taking the easy way out to balance things.

Easy way out indeed. Making the towns equal in troop power sounds good in theory but there's a part of me that don't want that.

However, you can easily tell how balanced the units are between each other by comparing their relative power to gold cost between each other. When it wildly fluctuates then it's not very balanced at all. When you see the slower low initiative units in action you generally see an imbalance.

Sure you can compare the goldcost. I just find a good unit being kinda cheap (according to you) (Master Hunter f.e) as a way to compensate for weak herostats (Rangers are defenseoriented. Attack would be MUCH better for Sylvan troops). In short, I want a complicated balance system like in StarCraft.

Having one unit completely dominate over the rest is so boring and screams terrible balance in a game. Over-reliance forces players to stick with one strategy as it is superior over the others. Thus making the game boring.

I see your point, but that is the factions strenghts and it adds spice. Sylvans are getting Hunters and Druids A.S.A.P while Academy are doing everything they can to get Mages the first week. Inferno and Dungeon are rushing for their Succubi and Blood Fury. A little different lvls but all key units that make that player much stronger. If the troops of a given tier becomes equal then there's no longer any key troops since the opposition at the same tier is just as powerful....THAT will lead to boredom.

It is perfectly reasonable to compare the tier 7 units overall efficiency(cost, growth, power comparison) given that they are all pretty hard to get to and the buildings to build them themselves are mostly the same price.

Sure, you can compare all you want, I just completely disagree and say that global balance demands some sacrifice.

[djtc]

To me almost everyone tier 7 unit is underpowered, or others, lower level units are overpowered.

When fighting Inferno i`m more woried about Sucubus chain attack, pit lords spells, hell chargers/cerberus attacks, imp stealing my mp than devils, it`s funy how tier 1 unit can cause you way much harm than tier 7...

Againt Necropolis most of the time you have to wory about legions of skeletal archers + vampires + liches than some dragons.

Paladins are broken units, i`m more afraid of them than angels. Seriously if they aren`t going to fix Klaus they should make Paladins tier 7.

Giants rock... Seriously i find most of 3-5lv tier units more dangerous than giants.

With Sylvans i also haven`t played alot, but druids and hunters looks like main force of sylvans not some dragons.

Agree with all of that. In general, you don't rely on your lvl.7 units as your main force, which is a shame IMHO.

Nevertheless, speaking of lvl.7 between themselves, I'd like to have:
-Archdevils teleport everywhere (which can be the main difference between Devils and Archdevils)
-Spectral Dragons better defense
-Angels &upgrade better attack
-Titans better initiative/speed or health

[MrSteamTank]

Campaigner

Considering you can build heroes from a different faction hero strength doesnt really come into play. You can be sylvan use your ranger hero to explore/defend your town while getting an offensive based hero from another faction to be your main combat hero.

So the balance factor of different heroes doesnt really come into play. It's more of a luck thing hoping your first hero option is an offensive one to best take advantage of master hunters. Anyways considering arch-druids are casters only defense benefits them which rangers have plenty of.

I will agree that not every tier 7 needs to be equally as useful. Although it would help if every unit was given a more specific purpose in an army. If a tier 7 unit is going to be so so then it should have some sort of unique ability that makes it excel in certain situations even if they are rather rare. Such as the ghost dragon from homm3 and its aging effect, the hydra in general with its excellent defensive capability vs multiple units, grim raider and its armor piercing charge/combo ability with minotaur guards, unicorns and magic resist aura, squires with their ranged defense ability, etc.

Some tier 7 units right now are just bleh and arent really that strong to make up for it. Look at for example bone/spectral/gem/emerald dragons. They are just tough flyers. They do have an ability or two with dubiously useful effects.

[Bonzer]

I know this topic is looking at "underpowered Lvl7 units" only, but as the discussion expands, has anyone thought that an underpowered Lvl7 is probably being supported by overpowered Lvl6 etc? That is, each Town's creature "sets" should, with similar strength Heroes, be a match for each other.

There are so many strategies (and counters to them), I have often thought this game resembles "Rock, Scissor, Paper" but on a grand scale.

Anyway, we have to leave the developers something to add in the expansions. Roll on the Azures!

[MrSteamTank]

Not really. Spectral dragons arent very good yet wraiths/wights arent anything to hold your breath about. They are a solid tier 6 but hardly stronger than the others given their higher price tag.

Angels are one of the better tier 7 out there yet cavaliers/paladins are the best tier 6 out there by a long shot.

Maybe if wraiths were given a mighty gorgon type ability(10% chance to insta-kill a unit per wraith rather than their current harm touch move) then it would warrant spectrals being weaker than the other tier 7s.

[Bandobras Took]

It's always hard to judge this kind of thing. Especially by straight stat comparisons.

The only Tier 7 unit I find underpowered in relation to cost is the Devil/Archdevil.

You're shelling out some serious money for a slow, short-range melee unit whose only special requires that one of your other stacks die first.

No thanks!

[Omega_Destroyer]

I find the level 7 units more of a liability than an asset. I notice I tend to plan my battle strategy around minimizing their losses. It sounds strange, but I'd rather have 20 level 5 units or 10 level 6 units over 5 level 7 units.

[slippy]

I'm loving the titans, I just wish they weren't so expensive...
And in my experience, the Arch Devils are the weakest. I agree that they should have the teleport ability.

[Jimmpi]

Devils and bone dragos!!!

Devils should be abel too teleport the whole battelfield

And the bone dragons should have bonues against ranged creature

[Wolfshanze]

I can only think of six races that have underpowered level-7 units in HOMM5.

[asandir]

lol@wolf

[MrSteamTank]

I'd like to see all tier 7s get some pretty hefty boosts but then add some sort of giant slayer type ability/spell that gives a large dmg boost when you attack a tier 7 unit. This way tier 7s would be dangerous yet counterable.

[PhoenixReborn]

I'd like to see all tier 7s get some pretty hefty boosts but then add some sort of giant slayer type ability/spell that gives a large dmg boost when you attack a tier 7 unit. This way tier 7s would be dangerous yet counterable.

Sounds like Dragon slayer from HOMM II!! Not a bad idea.

[stijn]

I can only think of six races that have underpowered level-7 units in HOMM5.

the black dragons aren't that bad a level 7 unit i'd say. perhaps when you compare them with their role in homm2, when they really owned all

[DaemianLucifer]

the black dragons aren't that bad a level 7 unit i'd say. perhaps when you compare them with their role in homm2, when they really owned all

Except that they cannot be healed,hasted,ressurected,or anything other,yet a warlock can damage them with a spell,so its not advisable that you shove them in melee and caste meteor shower,even though that was a great strategy for dungeon in previous incarnations.

[asandir]

I actually didn't realise that, although I should have since "unstoppable magic" (i think that's the one) means what it says

is it irresistable??

[DaemianLucifer]

I actually didn't realise that, although I should have since "unstoppable magic" (i think that's the one) means what it says

is it irresistable??

Its stupid imo.If you can harm them with a spell,why cannot you buff them as well?Or curse them?Its not that destruction magic uses some other type of magic,it is just a different school.Also,why cannot your tents heal them?Its not magic.One of the many lazy illogical things nival has put into the game.

[asandir]

yeah, i didn't like the lack of healing tent action for my BD much at all, that was a little crazy

[Odish]

I'm sorry if it's a bit of an offtopic but..

I just lik to say that I think you all are clinging too much to old homm games. you just want the old chritaristics of the creatures (likr arcdevils teleport or bonedragon 50% reesistence vs. ranged attacks) instead of accepting the new stuff nival did. which is a bit petty considering all the complaints about H5 being H3 3D.
at least try to think of other specials that could make those charecters better (like some of you r doing), like archdevils having a chance to teleport when attacked (as shown in the prologue movie when nicolai fights the devil) this way avoiding damage.. I don't know, some of are very original and take the time to think of gr8 ideas..

sorry for the offftopic again, just something that bothered me enough to write all of this down...