Castle moat effects - what are they?

-Sky_Lord- · Unread postby **-Sky_Lord-** » 10 Jun 2006, 22:51

Another not documented feature...
It seems every moat has a special effect/spell - there is no mentioning of it ingame or in the manual...
What are the effects?
I know:

Elfs = Entangle
Necro = Vulnerability & Weakness

What are the rest?

vicheron · Unread postby **vicheron** » 10 Jun 2006, 23:36

Dungeon = Poison

Gus · Unread postby **Gus** » 11 Jun 2006, 01:48

Academy = Blind

if i'm not mistaken.

Wolfshanze · Unread postby **Wolfshanze** » 11 Jun 2006, 07:15

That Elf's Entangle Moat seems too powerful... basically speaking, the moat itself is in impenitrible wall because if you touch it, you're stuck, right? No way of getting through it? Why even bother having walls then if you've got the moat? The only way in is through the gate because the moat cannot be penetrated!?!?!

Am I missing something obvious here?

DaemianLucifer · Unread postby **DaemianLucifer** » 11 Jun 2006, 07:51

I think it doesnt always entangle.Theres a chance or something like that.But it seems that that one is the strongest of them all.You enter it,and then your opponent can forget about that unit,since itll die eventually.

Gaidal Cain · Unread postby **Gaidal Cain** » 11 Jun 2006, 08:24

You get realeased after a while. I've no idea what the requirements for that is though.

And have you noticed that you can walk through your own moats without feeling the effects?

DaemianLucifer · Unread postby **DaemianLucifer** » 11 Jun 2006, 08:42

Gaidal Cain wrote:You get realeased after a while. I've no idea what the requirements for that is though.

Really?When?I made a stupid mistake of entering the moat with 30 something unicorns in the c2m3.I ended that fight with 4 of them(it got attack only by two arrows from the towers,and everything else was the moat).

Gaidal Cain wrote: And have you noticed that you can walk through your own moats without feeling the effects?

Yes,Ive noticed this.It is nice,in a way,but illogical in another way.

Orfinn · Unread postby **Orfinn** » 11 Jun 2006, 08:52

Academy have explosive mines. Lol I accidentaly misplaced my vampires which in a moment ran straight through 3-5 mines for entering the gate but they all died. And I had like 70 of them, I know necro units are weak but still.

I think the moat system for not hurting your defending units is good enough, illogical but it balance it well or the defenders would have a big disadventage.

ThunderTitan · Unread postby **ThunderTitan** » 11 Jun 2006, 10:10

DaemianLucifer wrote: Really?When?I made a stupid mistake of entering the moat with 30 something unicorns in the c2m3.I ended that fight with 4 of them(it got attack only by two arrows from the towers,and everything else was the moat).

From what I noticed trying to move through any of the moats is murder. It's not the entangle, it's the fact that everytime you move you can get damaged, and it has 2 rows. Defeated the AI a couple of times by putting a unit between the moat and the wall. He's last stack lost so much units by the time it got to me that I won, even if normaly I didn't have a chance.

Wolfshanze · Unread postby **Wolfshanze** » 11 Jun 2006, 20:11

ThunderTitan wrote:
DaemianLucifer wrote: Really?When?I made a stupid mistake of entering the moat with 30 something unicorns in the c2m3.I ended that fight with 4 of them(it got attack only by two arrows from the towers,and everything else was the moat).
From what I noticed trying to move through any of the moats is murder. It's not the entangle, it's the fact that everytime you move you can get damaged, and it has 2 rows. Defeated the AI a couple of times by putting a unit between the moat and the wall. He's last stack lost so much units by the time it got to me that I won, even if normaly I didn't have a chance.

I think in moats in H5 in-general and the Sylvan "moat" in-particular are overpowered. A moat should slow the opponent and/or cause a little damage... it shouldn't single-handedly win a battle for you. I nearly lost a very important battle because I had a huge stack get stuck with Entangle-moat and then proceeded to lose the entire stack over the course of the battle.

One thing I miss is actually "A MOAT"... there aren't any in H5... where's the water-based Moat for Haven? That would make the most sense! Maybe a water moat to slow them down) and some spikes for some damage... but no water at all for the humans just doesn't seem right at all.

DaemianLucifer · Unread postby **DaemianLucifer** » 11 Jun 2006, 20:41

Wolfshanze wrote:One thing I miss is actually "A MOAT"... there aren't any in H5... where's the water-based Moat for Haven? That would make the most sense! Maybe a water moat to slow them down) and some spikes for some damage... but no water at all for the humans just doesn't seem right at all.

Well theres a reason theres no snow:fresh water is a rarity in this world

vicheron · Unread postby **vicheron** » 11 Jun 2006, 21:18

The Sylvan moat's entangling effect holds the affected creature for one turn, but if the creature doesn't move immediately after it wears off, can't wait or defend, it will be entangled again.

Pitsu · Unread postby **Pitsu** » 14 Jun 2006, 20:10

Alright, anyone has corrections to the following description of moats and defensive structures (others than layout and grammatics)?

A moat is added to defensive structures when citadel is build (town level 10 earliest). The central tower is added at the same time. Two more towers are added with the castle building (town level 13 or 16 earliest). The damage done by all these structures is a linear function of town level. Upgrading citadel to castle does not improve the moat or central tower damage (beside +1 to town level). Different towns, however, have different damages and different effects. Common rules are that the moat damage is dealt in the end of a creatures turn (a creature in moat takes damage only if it does not leave the moat) and moat/towers damage is not a subject for damage reduction or increase by hero skills and abilities

Damage = trunc ( K * town level)

K values are listed below.

Town name ....K for Moat .......K for main tower ....K for side towers ....Moat effect

academy ......9.448 ......1.95 ......1.39 .....Damage per each mine, mines dissapear after activation, casts blind for 1,25 turns
Inferno .......5.66 .......1.95....... 1.39
Haven .....4.723 ......1.95 ......1..39
Necropolis .......4.723 ...... 1.95 ..........1.39 ...... Casts advanced weakness for 5 turns and vulnerability.
Dungeon....... 4.59 .....1.89 ........1.35 ......28 poison damage for three acts
Sylvan .......4.475 .......1.84 .......1.315 ......A chance to entangle for 5 turns. May renew during these 5 turns.

MrSteamTank · Unread postby **MrSteamTank** » 15 Jun 2006, 03:58

The easiest way to solve the moat imbalance issue it to allow it to work on each unit only once every third round or so yet still make any unit trying to cross the moat stop and waste a turn there so it still has definitely a gamebreaking effect. Right now I definitely agree they are very overpowered.

DaemianLucifer · Unread postby **DaemianLucifer** » 15 Jun 2006, 08:12

About the academy moat:Is the computer still doing the mine walk?

dragonn · Unread postby **dragonn** » 15 Jun 2006, 08:39

Correct me if I'm mistaken, but the block passageway in your wall with your unit, and hold your enemies unit in the moat strategy does not work? It didn't work when I was under siege in Inferno town. A unit which was standing on a moat killed my blocker unit but didn't move from the moat, didn't recieve any damage...

DaemianLucifer · Unread postby **DaemianLucifer** » 15 Jun 2006, 08:48

dragonn wrote:Correct me if I'm mistaken, but the block passageway in your wall with your unit, and hold your enemies unit in the moat strategy does not work? It didn't work when I was under siege in Inferno town. A unit which was standing on a moat killed my blocker unit but didn't move from the moat, didn't recieve any damage...

It worked very well for me.Maybe a bug,who knows?

Pitsu · Unread postby **Pitsu** » 15 Jun 2006, 09:03

DaemianLucifer wrote:
It worked very well for me.Maybe a bug,who knows?

I rather believe that the unit actually wasnt in moat. Sometimes it is difficult to understand which square belongs to the moat which not. But if there indeed is a situation that at on point the moat does not do damage anymore, i would be very interested to know more about it.

Gaidal Cain · Unread postby **Gaidal Cain** » 15 Jun 2006, 09:08

DaemianLucifer wrote:About the academy moat:Is the computer still doing the mine walk?

If it has something immune to blind, I believe it still does.

And I've also noted units standing in the moat seemingly not receiving any damage. I might hhave been wrong though.

ThunderTitan · Unread postby **ThunderTitan** » 15 Jun 2006, 12:50

You only receive damage if you move. The ideea was to make the creatures move towards a creature in the second row of the moat. Put a Pixie with the back to the wall once to kill many a nightmare & Co.

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Castle moat effects - what are they?

Castle moat effects - what are they?

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