Civ IV

[Psychobabble]

I finally got my computer working again and after a brief and fairly enjoyable stint on the H5 demo, I'm back to trying to master Civ IV. I was just wondering if anyone can help me find a good meta-strategy. I'm currently playing on noble difficult, and I can sometimes win on it, but only just if at all. I'm playing as random civ, but I think the french are clearly the best, but the greeks seem pretty good to. Here's my usual strategy:

* Build warrior (losing town to barbarians sucks!) then settler.
* Research mysticism to found hinduism (I can usually win the race to this one, I usually seem to lose it to meditation).
* Expand to 5 or so cities and research to iron working for swordsmen.
* Conquer nearest rival with swordsmen/archers. Reserach to construction (catapults) to take over their high defence capital.

By this stage in a game a couple of things seem to happen. In a couple of games I've hit this "wall" where my city maintenance costs spiral out of control basically shutting down my civilisaion for 20+ turns until I can get economics to make wealth. There seems to be a really harsh barrier of the number of cities you can support at this stage of the game, and if you cross it by even one city you get a massive income crash and all your units start getting disbanded. I've learned to be careful to avoid this .

The other thing that happens is I start to lose the technology race badly. I just can't seem to get on the technology trade-wheel early enough to have anything of value to trade (being fairly isolated in a couple of my games hasn't helped). This annoys me because I like being the most advanced and building wonders. So what I do here is just click on fibre optics in the research tree, which usually gets me there first. I build the internet and get every technology. This gives me an edge for a few dozen turns in the end game so I can either space race win (though I was a bit slow to do this one time) or conquer enough territory/buy enough friends to win a diplomatic victory.

Anyway, anyone else got some tips? How can I stay in the tech race through the middle-modern ages? How many cities should I be aiming for?

[DaemianLucifer]

I tend to pick montezuma because he starts with mysticism so I can usually win either budhism or hinduisam(on higher dificulties its usually hinduism).First I build a scout then a warior,then setler.I setle as much cities as I can and convert as fast as I can(because of that extra gold;sailing helps alot if theres lots of water).I rush a wonder,any wonder in order to get high profet(having one priest also helps)so I can get the extra money from the big temple.Meanwhile I run towards alphabet and iron working and then trade the techs Ive missed.Jaguar warriors are excelent because they dont require iron,so I can rush them,and since I get extra combat,conquering becomes easy.I never had money problems because I get loads of gold from viliges with scouts,and later my religion provides for the rest.

[reavas]

It seems like you're suffering from a cottage shortage. In order to stay ahead of the AI in the late game, to nab the wonders and the "first to research" bonuses, you need to build a fair number of cottages in the early game. These cottages should sustain your tech rate once you leave the early parts of the game, where your commerce came from working riverside plots or lake plots. This is especially important if you fail to found a religion.

You build a settler right after the warrior? At size 1? Usually that is not a good idea. Letting your capital grow a bit first to size 3 or 4 whilst you work on military is what I do. Otherwise, you're dedicating, 2 or 3 units of food/hammers towards the settler, and stalling the growth of the city.

If your city maintenance spirals out of control, then its a sign you have too many cities. For me, an optical tech rate might be 60-80%. If it is higher, you can afford to aquire more cities, whether through passive or aggressive means. Any lower, and you should halt the expansion phase and work on the economy, especially getting those cottages going. Running wealth on your cities to keep your civ afloat isn't a good idea, unless they're out of things to build. As your economy develops by building banks and markets, you can afford to expand. A good late game civic to adopt if you have a large amount of territory is State Property, as it grants a huge discount in city maintenance.

There is no magic number of optimal cities. As the game progresses, the amount of cities that are optimal shifts, so with more experience you will be able to tell when you can afford to support additional cities.

As for religion, it might be a better idea, if you don't start with the tech Mysticism to instead focus on other techs to grow your capital, then snag one later, either through research or the Oracle (you can get Christianity or Confucianism), or if you built Stonehenge, the great Prophet it gives you can be used to found a religion.

[Angelspit]

There are some very good tips in there. Thanks.

I was about to suggest letting the capital grow a little before thinking about the second town, but reavas said it better.

[theLuckyDragon]

There's already a thread on C-IV in the Hall.

[Caradoc]

I've found it better to put off religion until I have settled three or four cities. With a Creative leader or with Stonehenge, I will have enough culture to grow them to 'fat crosses', and ymy Palace will generate some anyway. Until Monarch or Diety, happiness will not be a problem for a while. So rather than start with Mysticism and then spend 10-12 turns to get Buddhaism or (more likely) Hinduism, I will wait and pick up Confucianism at about the time I really need to have a religion. If you have a Great Prophet, you can get Christianity as soon as you have Meditation, Monotheism, and Writing. Some players just wait until someone else spreads religion to them, which will provide a nice diplomacy bonus.

If you start with a Warrior, you are going to want to build a Scout. If you have a Scout then you already have Hunting and may decide to go to Archery and get Archers as early defenders rather then Warriors. I find myself wanting to double up Warriors where one Archer will usually suffice, so the question is whether to spend 5-6 turns on Archery. (Hunting is also good for building Camps, which are good early improvements since they do not require clearing the forest.) The best early army is the Axeman, so it pays to research Bronze Working early on to see if you have the Copper. The other big benefit of Bronze working is chopping. For these reasons I like a civ with Hunting and/or Mining to start with and will research the other ASAP. Next comes Bronze Working.

The second unit built will be a Settler if my first town is not sitting on a resource I really need (Copper, Gold) or I have started in a location where the Settler will take more than 20 turns. By the time the Settler is built I will have found where to build the second city. If I have a production problem in the first city, then I need a Worker so I can start chopping.

Now it's time to make a decision about Stonehenge. It's a nice, cheap wonder that solves any Culture lag and soon generates a Great Prophet. If I have Stone in my first city I may go for it with Masonry, Mysticism, and Wheel and then gear up for the Pyramids. This makes sense if I have an Industrious leader. Stonehenge will be obsolete with Calendar so if I see I will be wanting Plantations, it's probably not worth it.

If not Stonehenge, then maybe Pyramids? Even without Stone, if I have an Industrious leader then I can get them in less than 40 turns and they are definitely worth it. In addition to Representation, they will probably generate a Great Engineer so I get two Wonders for the price of one. 90% of the time that freebie will be the Great Library which gives a big boost to Science.

So up to now, the builds at the first city over about 60 turns have been Warrior/Scout, Settler, Worker, Archer/Axeman, Settler. The second city will go Worker, Pyramids. Techs will be something like Hunting/Mining, Bronze Working, Archery, Masonry, Agriculture/Animal Husbandry/Fishing, Wheel, Pottery.

I now have two established cities and a Settler. I am ready to shift civics to Representation and Slavery. While the Settler is moving into position, I build another Worker and another Archer/Axeman.

From there a lot depends on what my Scout has discovered about resources and neighbors. If it looks like war, then it's time for Construction. Otherwise I may go Sailing.

You may find another approach that suits your style, but this is what got me to Monarch (with Raging Barbarians). I hear Diety is another story.

[Metathron]

Do you guys automate your workers/scouts and such, or direct their every move yourselves?

What is needed for your ships to become truly sea worthy (ie that they don't get lost in the open ocean)?

[DaemianLucifer]

I only use goto as far as automation goes.I never trusted it before,and Im not going to start experimenting now.

I never rely on navy that much,since I prefer continents.For a ship to pass freely over ocean you need astronomy,I think.

And can this thread be merged with other civ IV one?

[Psychobabble]

Good advice from Daemon, reavas and Charles there, thanks! There's conflicting suggestions on whether or not to build a settler second, but I think I'll go with Charles and do so. I'll let you know how I go in my next game .

It seems like you're suffering from a cottage shortage. In order to stay ahead of the AI in the late game, to nab the wonders and the "first to research" bonuses, you need to build a fair number of cottages in the early game. These cottages should sustain your tech rate once you leave the early parts of the game, where your commerce came from working riverside plots or lake plots. This is especially important if you fail to found a religion.

I guess I shouldn't just set my worker's to automate then, eh?

There's already a thread on C-IV in the Hall.

I looked for it before posting it, but I didn't see it so I figured it had been archived. oops.

[Caradoc]

It's a close call that really depends on what you have to work with. If you can build something useful and let your city gain a population point, that's worth doing. For instance if you have Fishing and there's a Fish in range, then a Workboat is a good idea. If you have Hunting, then you might build two Warriors. If you have a lot of Hammers, then maybe a Barracks.

Personally, I don't like to build a lot of Warriors. You just can't count on them for defense and they are pretty much useless for attack. When a Barbarian comes up an sits on my Gold Mine, I don't want to wait for it to plunder the mine and then attack the city. People think of Archers as defenders, but they are also effective against barbarian warriors on cleared ground.

The other common strategy is to build a Worker and then use it to chop a Settler. With the 1.61 patch chopping is less attractive, at least until you get Mathematics. The problem is that your city is still not growing while you build the Worker. If you can quickly get out a Settler, then at least you can set it to building the Worker and allow the first city to grow a bit.

Worker automation is not a very good idea. You've seen what they do for the AIs. They will cut down all your trees and build roads on every square. And boy do they like Cottages. Actually, I do too, but there's no point having more than you can work.

While I've got you here, let me put in a word for Amra's mod and the SmartMap map generator. Also Blue Marble graphics.

[Psychobabble]

While I've got you here, let me put in a word for Amra's mod and the SmartMap map generator. Also Blue Marble graphics.

Could I be so lazy as to ask you for links? At least to a database? Thanks

[theLuckyDragon]

The Blue Marble mod can be found on the Civ official site. As for the other ones, they should be somewhere around http://www.civfanatics.com (search the forums), but I've never heard of them.

edit: found Amra's mod here.

[Caradoc]

The Blue Marble mod can be found on the Civ official site. As for the other ones, they should be somewhere around http://www.civfanatics.com (search the forums), but I've never heard of them.

edit: found Amra's mod here.

Blue Marble is there too:

http://www.civfanatics.net/~bluemarble/ ... /index.php

There's a discussion group for MODS and components. Look for SmartMap under Map Generators.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=154989

Each week there is also an article on the front page announcing any new MODs.

[ThunderTitan]

I get half my post deleted of which only 75% are pointless drivel but you guys get to have 2 threads for the same game?! What's up with that?

http://www.celestialheavens.com/forums/ ... php?t=1312

[Caradoc]

PB is our Moderator. If he want two CIV threads, so shall it be. No harm in that is there?

[theLuckyDragon]

So, has anyone been following the development of the Fall from Heaven II mod?
Kael and the team are doing a fabulous job with the game; version 0.14 is due on Saturday.

[Caradoc]

So, has anyone been following the development of the Fall from Heaven II mod?
Kael and the team are doing a fabulous job with the game; version 0.14 is due on Saturday.

I play from time to time, but still favor the more mainstream mods. FFH takes so damned long to play that I'm often discouraged from starting something that will occupy me for so long.

[theLuckyDragon]

FFH takes so damned long to play...

You're telling me! I've never completed an FfH game. The closest I ever came to finishing one was in FfH1, on a tiny map, with a Religion victory... then a bug crashed my game

Playing FfH2 is such an interesting experience! I often play just to see what happens next and to feel that atmosphere , not necessarily to win. Hmm, I wonder if there's going to be anything like this for H5...

[asandir]

ha .... i've got a copy of civ4 that i have yet to open, been sitting around for a couple of months now .... what the??

[DaemianLucifer]

Ive finally given in and instaled the patch(just because I wanted to try out fall from heaven).