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Final Cloning Column
1- What is written is innovative and exciting, not artistic. Someone who don't read can't understand what is written.
2- Those are not my words, read a few news before and comment there, and try to understand he came to the exact opposite conclusion as you this time.
Discussing anymore with you is not worth the effort.
2- Those are not my words, read a few news before and comment there, and try to understand he came to the exact opposite conclusion as you this time.
Discussing anymore with you is not worth the effort.
Spiritu Insanum-
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- Joined: 06 Jan 2006
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I'd fix it up myself, but I don't know what was meant to be there - this sentence is missing a word:
"Does it make sense to that H5"
@Corribus
He was quoting a quote I quoted (which was itself a quote) in a news item from a week back. Scroll down the front page. And it's not indefensible, a couple of decades ago and for years after that computer gaming was the most innovative field on the planet simply because of its age.
"Does it make sense to that H5"
@Corribus
He was quoting a quote I quoted (which was itself a quote) in a news item from a week back. Scroll down the front page. And it's not indefensible, a couple of decades ago and for years after that computer gaming was the most innovative field on the planet simply because of its age.
No need to change Wildbears name just because he doesnt agree with you HoMMoFan. That's rather childish.
I know why they are doing it. I understand why they are doing it. I dont like that they are doing it. I wish they weren't doing it but we're going to have to live with it. I'm sure I'll buy it as I do everything that has Might and Magic in the title. Hopefully I end up loving it.
I know why they are doing it. I understand why they are doing it. I dont like that they are doing it. I wish they weren't doing it but we're going to have to live with it. I'm sure I'll buy it as I do everything that has Might and Magic in the title. Hopefully I end up loving it.
Yes, I do so apologize for the typographical error of accidentally omitting that word. I hope nobody loses sleep over it - I didn't do it on purpose - honestly! Please, forgive me.
I know where the quote came from, and I don't really agree with it because I don't really think that video games as a whole qualify as a true form of artistic expression - that fact is belied by the very classification of the field as an industry! Maybe in the days when the industry was young, but of course when the industry was young it was also very underdeveloped, and at the point you could hardly call it the most innovative and EXCITING "pseudo-artistic" field on the planet. That's venturing a bit far into the realm of hyperbole, don't you think?
Finally, even if you accept that this industry is an artistic field, it is hardly fair to criticize it for "becoming a morass of drudgery and imitation", as if that is somehow unique among "artistic fields" in this day and age. EVERY entertainment industry has followed the same path, from books to movies. That's because it's all about making money, and it's not about art at all. And I reiterate that YOU CANNOT JUST BLAME THE INDUSTRIES for this. The consumers share a lot of the credit. Furthermore, when an industry is young, of course it's going to go through a period of innovation and excitement - why would you expect anything less? - and OF COURSE after it's been around a while and the industry becomes saturated with ideas and producers of those ideas, it's going to become stagnant. Why again would you expect anything less? For you to expect the video game industry to not do what every other entertainment industry has done (i.e., plateau) and then criticize it as if it's somebody's fault, then your expectations are unreasonable and delusional.
I know where the quote came from, and I don't really agree with it because I don't really think that video games as a whole qualify as a true form of artistic expression - that fact is belied by the very classification of the field as an industry! Maybe in the days when the industry was young, but of course when the industry was young it was also very underdeveloped, and at the point you could hardly call it the most innovative and EXCITING "pseudo-artistic" field on the planet. That's venturing a bit far into the realm of hyperbole, don't you think?
Finally, even if you accept that this industry is an artistic field, it is hardly fair to criticize it for "becoming a morass of drudgery and imitation", as if that is somehow unique among "artistic fields" in this day and age. EVERY entertainment industry has followed the same path, from books to movies. That's because it's all about making money, and it's not about art at all. And I reiterate that YOU CANNOT JUST BLAME THE INDUSTRIES for this. The consumers share a lot of the credit. Furthermore, when an industry is young, of course it's going to go through a period of innovation and excitement - why would you expect anything less? - and OF COURSE after it's been around a while and the industry becomes saturated with ideas and producers of those ideas, it's going to become stagnant. Why again would you expect anything less? For you to expect the video game industry to not do what every other entertainment industry has done (i.e., plateau) and then criticize it as if it's somebody's fault, then your expectations are unreasonable and delusional.
"What men are poets who can speak of Jupiter if he were like a man, but if he is an immense spinning sphere of methane and ammonia must be silent?" - Richard P. Feynman
[Haven't logged in in a few days and look what I find!]
While going the "safe" route with H5 may in a strict sense be the best
business decision, in a broader view it becomes a "tragedy of the
commons" situation when viewed in terms of an already-sterile and
derivative marketplace (anyone who DLed Costikyan's slideshow should
already be familiar with the associated issues). Every other publisher is
making basically the same decision that Ubi has, and frankly I am
rather put off with the whole marketplace anymore (even if some of it
as Greg said in his piece is due to intrinsic constraints pretty much out
of the control of devs and publishers).
My ideal fantasy strategy game would probably be 2 steps beyond H4,
not 1 step back; essentially I would like to see a lot of cliches turned on
their collective ear and some real bold steps taken, graphically and
gameplay-wise.
I'm so bored with H3 gameplay that last week I just gave up on two
games I had started because it was jusssst allll sssso stale anymore.
You might make some hardcore Heroes fans happy but a lot of other
gamers out there will probably laugh at H5 (if all we have heard about it
is true).
But it looks like my ideal game will be long in the coming, as Ubi is
going the retro route and the makers of Age of Wonders aren't even
making fantasy strategy games anymore.
While going the "safe" route with H5 may in a strict sense be the best
business decision, in a broader view it becomes a "tragedy of the
commons" situation when viewed in terms of an already-sterile and
derivative marketplace (anyone who DLed Costikyan's slideshow should
already be familiar with the associated issues). Every other publisher is
making basically the same decision that Ubi has, and frankly I am
rather put off with the whole marketplace anymore (even if some of it
as Greg said in his piece is due to intrinsic constraints pretty much out
of the control of devs and publishers).
My ideal fantasy strategy game would probably be 2 steps beyond H4,
not 1 step back; essentially I would like to see a lot of cliches turned on
their collective ear and some real bold steps taken, graphically and
gameplay-wise.
I'm so bored with H3 gameplay that last week I just gave up on two
games I had started because it was jusssst allll sssso stale anymore.
You might make some hardcore Heroes fans happy but a lot of other
gamers out there will probably laugh at H5 (if all we have heard about it
is true).
But it looks like my ideal game will be long in the coming, as Ubi is
going the retro route and the makers of Age of Wonders aren't even
making fantasy strategy games anymore.
[Responding to Corribus' last comment]
Then delusional I am then. A quote from George Bernard Shaw comes to
mind:
"The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one
persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress
depends on the unreasonable man."
Games have it harder because small-time independent devs have a
very hard time of it, while in movies at least indie filmmakers might be
able to put up something of worth. When's the last time something as
cheaply made as the Blair Witch Project was as successful in the games
industry?
In any event films probably have "matured" better than games have (or
even TV or music). I'd peg Sturgeon's Law for each as follows:
Games: 80% crap
Films: 65% crap
TV: 90% crap
Music: 95% crap (this likely the most personally biased of the four I'll admit).
There's no reason for a genre to keep getting worse, other than the
laziness and cowardice of the publishers and the inability of the
consumer to exhibit intelligent discernment.
Then delusional I am then. A quote from George Bernard Shaw comes to
mind:
"The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one
persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress
depends on the unreasonable man."
Games have it harder because small-time independent devs have a
very hard time of it, while in movies at least indie filmmakers might be
able to put up something of worth. When's the last time something as
cheaply made as the Blair Witch Project was as successful in the games
industry?
In any event films probably have "matured" better than games have (or
even TV or music). I'd peg Sturgeon's Law for each as follows:
Games: 80% crap
Films: 65% crap
TV: 90% crap
Music: 95% crap (this likely the most personally biased of the four I'll admit).
There's no reason for a genre to keep getting worse, other than the
laziness and cowardice of the publishers and the inability of the
consumer to exhibit intelligent discernment.
difool write: "There's no reason for a genre to keep getting worse, other than the laziness and cowardice of the publishers and the inability of the consumer to exhibit intelligent discernment."
Precisely.... but again I think cowardice is an unfair word to use. There's no reason they should be bold in the first place - the potential rewards are not great enough to justify the risk.
Even if, say, you are daring and make something quite unique - how long can you capitalize on that uniqueness? Within a month, there will be twenty copy-cat versions of your great idea. The industry is just saturated, and it is likely to stay that way until there's a great leap forward in technology, and then you'll see innovation for a little while until it becomes saturated again. The process will repeat. Such is the great disadvantage of globalization.
C.
Precisely.... but again I think cowardice is an unfair word to use. There's no reason they should be bold in the first place - the potential rewards are not great enough to justify the risk.
Even if, say, you are daring and make something quite unique - how long can you capitalize on that uniqueness? Within a month, there will be twenty copy-cat versions of your great idea. The industry is just saturated, and it is likely to stay that way until there's a great leap forward in technology, and then you'll see innovation for a little while until it becomes saturated again. The process will repeat. Such is the great disadvantage of globalization.
C.
"What men are poets who can speak of Jupiter if he were like a man, but if he is an immense spinning sphere of methane and ammonia must be silent?" - Richard P. Feynman
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Fallen Angel
- Galactic Gargle Blaster
- Posts: 42
- Joined: 06 Jan 2006
With all due respect difool, H4 games can grow just as stale as H3 games. The only difference is the added RPG elements involved in using the Heroes themselves in battle, and those grow just as bland after a sometime, as well. The same goes for the Age of Wonders series.
I'm not saying that just to add another opposing viewpoint, because I enjoy playing all of those games. I'm just pointing that that every game that I've ever played eventually grows stale. If they didn't, there would be no reason to develop new games.
I'm not saying that just to add another opposing viewpoint, because I enjoy playing all of those games. I'm just pointing that that every game that I've ever played eventually grows stale. If they didn't, there would be no reason to develop new games.
I went through a brief flurry of H4 playing about 3 months ago, and haven't
played it since, so I'm on your side. (Same for AoW)
My main issue is that Corribus thinks playing it safe is the wise move from
a business standpoint, while I think that is actually the risky move. I mean
to be successful H5 will have to draw in many new fans, but I'm not sure
the wider base of gamers will bother if it comes off as very retro to them.
The Heroes fan base consists of the hardcore (us), plus a slightly less
hardcore but larger population "out there" somewhere (don't hang
around in forums like this much). I don't think we are enough by
ourselves to make H5 a success-to draw in new blood it CANNOT be the
same old same old.
played it since, so I'm on your side. (Same for AoW)
My main issue is that Corribus thinks playing it safe is the wise move from
a business standpoint, while I think that is actually the risky move. I mean
to be successful H5 will have to draw in many new fans, but I'm not sure
the wider base of gamers will bother if it comes off as very retro to them.
The Heroes fan base consists of the hardcore (us), plus a slightly less
hardcore but larger population "out there" somewhere (don't hang
around in forums like this much). I don't think we are enough by
ourselves to make H5 a success-to draw in new blood it CANNOT be the
same old same old.
But don't you think the "out there" population (as you put it) is more likely to be swayed by fancy graphics than anything else anyway?
"What men are poets who can speak of Jupiter if he were like a man, but if he is an immense spinning sphere of methane and ammonia must be silent?" - Richard P. Feynman
Let's not forget here, that although H5 will be similar in many ways to H3, there is still going to be a lot of new things.
Not least of all, the fact that H5 will be in 3D. Do not underestimate this change, I think this will take many players a while to get use too. I think Ubisoft wanted to reduce the "newness" to people.
I for one think this is a good thing. Let's get use to the new developer, and the new 3D-ness, while we enjoy many of the features of H3 that we loved. Then after that, new things can be incorporated into H6.....
Not least of all, the fact that H5 will be in 3D. Do not underestimate this change, I think this will take many players a while to get use too. I think Ubisoft wanted to reduce the "newness" to people.
I for one think this is a good thing. Let's get use to the new developer, and the new 3D-ness, while we enjoy many of the features of H3 that we loved. Then after that, new things can be incorporated into H6.....
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