Thanks to Kalah for getting the campaign released as quickly as he did. This has been a long time in production with several bits of down time but over three years none the less. I can’t thank my playtesters enough for their time and input. In addition to Wimfrits, Robenhagen, HodgePodge and Koni, I thank Rakne Fne, Akul and Andrean for their useful inputs.
This is a 6 map campaign but there is a choice given at the end of the first map which changes the storyline, map setup and over 60% of the quests. It is not quite two completely different games but each is very different and each choice has two different endings based on choices made throughout the campaign. This campaign is a sequel to Dragon’s Fate and now that seven years have past Lamentia is offered a chance to resurrect her lover Nathaniel. Those who liked Dragon’s Fate should find a lot to like in this one. As in DF there is a lot of text, but for those you would rather skim through it follow the victory conditions and quest logs for keys as to what needs to be done on each map. For the newbies there is no need to play DF first though some story tie ins may not be made. So it may be preferable but not required to play or replay DF as an introduction to this one.
I hope players like it as this is almost certainly my last creation. I have found game creation more satisfying than the playing, and am sorry to see it finally reach a conclusion.
I posted the release announcement here as it is a sequel to DF a H-IV game and I wanted those players to know it was released but it does require Equilibris 3.51 or greater. So if this is the wrong forum then a mod can move or close the thread.
Lamentia's Story
Re: Lamentia's Story
It helped that you sent the minimaps along; that makes it a lot quicker. Are you guys listening?jeff wrote:Thanks to Kalah for getting the campaign released as quickly as he did.
The campaign sure looks good - I wish I could get Equi to work on my PC. I'll be looking to list this on the campaigns page eventually as well; it needs a bit of refurbishing.
In War: Resolution, In Defeat: Defiance, In Victory: Magnanimity, In Peace: Goodwill.
Re: Lamentia's Story
I am considering a H-IV WOW version. The maps aren't a problem but finding all of the text references to the few Equilibrius artifacts in the text could be daunting.Kalah wrote:It helped that you sent the minimaps along; that makes it a lot quicker. Are you guys listening?jeff wrote:Thanks to Kalah for getting the campaign released as quickly as he did.
The campaign sure looks good - I wish I could get Equi to work on my PC. I'll be looking to list this on the campaigns page eventually as well; it needs a bit of refurbishing.
Mala Ipsa Nova 
It would be great if you could manage that WoW version. You would reach much more players. If I would know all of the "few" equi artifacts, I could help seeking.
But I'll try to do my best with a German equilibris version of Lamentia's Story as well. Just now I'm playtesting Map 1 "Eine unerwartete Botschaft" (how I titled A Message Delivered) in German language.
The other scenarios will follow step by step, month by month.
But I'll try to do my best with a German equilibris version of Lamentia's Story as well. Just now I'm playtesting Map 1 "Eine unerwartete Botschaft" (how I titled A Message Delivered) in German language.
The other scenarios will follow step by step, month by month.-
rising_fart
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rising_fart
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rising_fart
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Stuck in the final mission
Hey, again, sorry for the double post. I am currently stuck in the final mission and looking for some help. Last thing i did was enter those "judgment grounds" and i totally can't figure out what to do next. My current win condition says "Lamentia is to find the herbalist, Trinni and Eleece are to head to north east and explore. Eliminate as many orange heroes as possible". I couldn't enter the blue forest which is underground in north east, is that the issue? How do i get the blockings removed? I own all 4 of the white tiger dwellings. Any help would be appreciated, thanks.
Aright, first the quest that takes you to the blue forest is a non-essential side quest and will not affect your chance to complete the game; you will however miss out on the horned bow. Now you were told early in the game that Trinni and Eleece needed to move quickly and if you followed the path of the yellow songbirds as the text suggests you would complete the quest. It is also a timed quest with a limited amount of time between each stop. If you decided to explore with the two and you did not head directly to the next destination; it is probable you just ran out of time permanently breaking the quest without a restart.
After the judgment a sequence of events start to happen, this assumes you have been visited by Morigan, if not then you need to find the staff of disruption for things to proceed. Afterwards you should be visited by Infernos, and then in a few days one of the angels will appear. You will need to visit Milla to get the antidote before the temple can be entered.
After the judgment a sequence of events start to happen, this assumes you have been visited by Morigan, if not then you need to find the staff of disruption for things to proceed. Afterwards you should be visited by Infernos, and then in a few days one of the angels will appear. You will need to visit Milla to get the antidote before the temple can be entered.
Mala Ipsa Nova
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rising_fart
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Before I can suggest anything else I need to know who has visited you since the judgment, Infernos, Morigan and/or the angel (the angel varies depending on the path you are playing.) It seems there maybe something that you need to do but I can only guess until I have more information. 
One more thing, did you visit the Old Soldier's Hut, if not HodgePodge needs to do that; it is in the far southeast.
One more thing, did you visit the Old Soldier's Hut, if not HodgePodge needs to do that; it is in the far southeast.
Mala Ipsa Nova
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rising_fart
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Would you like to tell me the story?
Hey Jeff, I loved your campaign. It was absolutely great; the stuff that gets a 10 out of 10!
Having said that, the campaign is quite long. Being quite replayable, I played this twice. I also made two different choices on my second replay, leading to a third ending.
One ending had Angel X and an all-good ending.
One ending was with Angel Y and Lamentia's friends got transformed.
One ending was with Angel Y but led to the good ending after a climactic fight with a level 55 Hero Z. That was the most exciting battle I had ever fought between heroes in HeroesIV!
I opened the final map with nwcprometheus, and saw that there is at least one more ending, involving a march between dark champions (you know what I'm talking about, right? Didn't want to spoil too much.)
As I don't want to replay the whole map again (quite draining!), can you tell me in PM what choices led to the dark champion ending and what the dark champion ending story was?
Having said that, the campaign is quite long. Being quite replayable, I played this twice. I also made two different choices on my second replay, leading to a third ending.
One ending had Angel X and an all-good ending.
One ending was with Angel Y and Lamentia's friends got transformed.
One ending was with Angel Y but led to the good ending after a climactic fight with a level 55 Hero Z. That was the most exciting battle I had ever fought between heroes in HeroesIV!
I opened the final map with nwcprometheus, and saw that there is at least one more ending, involving a march between dark champions (you know what I'm talking about, right? Didn't want to spoil too much.)
As I don't want to replay the whole map again (quite draining!), can you tell me in PM what choices led to the dark champion ending and what the dark champion ending story was?
Re: Would you like to tell me the story?
Why in a PM, it would be worth for all players to know about the choices leading to the 4 endings, right?cjlee wrote: One ending had Angel X and an all-good ending.
One ending was with Angel Y and Lamentia's friends got transformed.
One ending was with Angel Y but led to the good ending after a climactic fight with a level 55 Hero Z. That was the most exciting battle I had ever fought between heroes in HeroesIV!
...can you tell me in PM what choices led to the dark champion ending and what the dark champion ending story was?
well, that was just in case Jeff didn't want to give away how many endings there actually are.
For all we know, there may be more than 4 endings! This was such an amazing campaign.
I'm just guessing that the last ending is an all-evil one, where you make only evil choices. Because that was the only playstyle I didn't embrace.
As a writer myself, I really like Jeff's storytelling, his multiple characters, the twists and turns and interventions from multiple sources. That said, I would like to suggest to all writer-mapmakers that they consider how plausible or practical a choice may appear to a player if they want to put him in a genuine dilemma.
As we know, not all choices are equal. Any player would naturally consider his choices in light of the greater situation.
Which Angel to side with was a genuinely tough choice. Jeff put me in the spot where as a 'grieving lover and wife', I had to decide for Lamentia which faction to throw my lot in with. Jeff built up the atmosphere for this choice very well throughout the entire campaign. From the first to the last map, I was always wondering if I had made the right choice.
At several points in Lamentia's campaign, the choices offered were intended to shape the campaign's progression. For instance, you have the choice whether to grab Brissa's town or return it to her. That was supposed to reflect whether Lamentia had an 'expedient' or 'principled' approach to her choices.
But in the case of Brissa's town, the choice came after Jeff had already given me another town. Since I had a home base and offending Brissa could create an enemy out of Brissa and therefore bar my access to the all-important northeastern shipyards, I think most players would return the town. Even when playing with an 'evil' mindset, I felt compelled to return the town out of fear that Brissa would get mad and attack me with everything she had.
In the case of rescuing the kidnapped girl Melodia, I had to refuse the quest while playing 'good'. This was also not my choice. I had 14 days to flag and defend the Level 4 dwellings. One of my heroes had triggered the Melodia rescue quest while exploring the Northern wastes (a big mistake, I know!). But when I played a second time, I wanted to be evil, but decided to help out the quest out of curiosity. So I ended up doing good.
I would rate this campaign 10.0, so my comments are really suggestions to improve the already excellent icing on Jeff's cake.
For all we know, there may be more than 4 endings! This was such an amazing campaign.
I'm just guessing that the last ending is an all-evil one, where you make only evil choices. Because that was the only playstyle I didn't embrace.
As a writer myself, I really like Jeff's storytelling, his multiple characters, the twists and turns and interventions from multiple sources. That said, I would like to suggest to all writer-mapmakers that they consider how plausible or practical a choice may appear to a player if they want to put him in a genuine dilemma.
As we know, not all choices are equal. Any player would naturally consider his choices in light of the greater situation.
Which Angel to side with was a genuinely tough choice. Jeff put me in the spot where as a 'grieving lover and wife', I had to decide for Lamentia which faction to throw my lot in with. Jeff built up the atmosphere for this choice very well throughout the entire campaign. From the first to the last map, I was always wondering if I had made the right choice.
At several points in Lamentia's campaign, the choices offered were intended to shape the campaign's progression. For instance, you have the choice whether to grab Brissa's town or return it to her. That was supposed to reflect whether Lamentia had an 'expedient' or 'principled' approach to her choices.
But in the case of Brissa's town, the choice came after Jeff had already given me another town. Since I had a home base and offending Brissa could create an enemy out of Brissa and therefore bar my access to the all-important northeastern shipyards, I think most players would return the town. Even when playing with an 'evil' mindset, I felt compelled to return the town out of fear that Brissa would get mad and attack me with everything she had.
In the case of rescuing the kidnapped girl Melodia, I had to refuse the quest while playing 'good'. This was also not my choice. I had 14 days to flag and defend the Level 4 dwellings. One of my heroes had triggered the Melodia rescue quest while exploring the Northern wastes (a big mistake, I know!). But when I played a second time, I wanted to be evil, but decided to help out the quest out of curiosity. So I ended up doing good.
I would rate this campaign 10.0, so my comments are really suggestions to improve the already excellent icing on Jeff's cake.
First answering your question, the area with the Dark Champion line up is entered as an evil ending to the Dalius path. Now it is possible that you only need to replay the last map of the Dalius route. To have any chance you must steal the Staff of Disruption and only collect the first bounty. If you stole any of the possible items in the campaign that will help; if you killed the gator and got the boots that would help also.
Koni please note this for the German version: Unfortunately I did see a minor script error in the endgame variable script.
Allowing three of the minor shrines to be destroyed currently sets the minor shrine count to morality count – 1, it should be set morality count to morality count – 1. While this is a minor issue I will issue another patch in the future correcting that. 
However it makes the evil ending in the Dalius path a little harder to achieve.
Thank you, for your kind review, it had occurred to me to make Brissa hostile during the circumstance you mentioned. The reason I didn’t was the problem of reflagging the blue heroes. I can trigger all resources, cities and creatures that blue possesses but not blue heroes or creatures stacks that may be wandering around. Heroes may not trigger since the change owner script stays with the army and not the hero. So there is the possibility that Brissa herself may stay an ally. The same issues apply to changing the player’s color, some may but what a mess if HP changed to the new color but Lamentia didn’t. So that was one idea that could not be executed due to the editor’s limitation. There is a heavy morality penalty for failing to surrender the town and that will affect the ending.
Unfortunately I believe a majority of players who have undertaken the task of playing Lamentia’s Story do not take the time to enjoy the story or take note of the clues that are frequently given, but that’s fine. I created this for those that are RPG fan’s but hopefully the others enjoy the challenge of the maps. I can say that creating Lamentia's Story and Dragon’s Fate (and working with BDJ on TCC) was the most fun I have had gaming since Wizardry 8 and MM 8 where released.
Koni please note this for the German version: Unfortunately I did see a minor script error in the endgame variable script.
Allowing three of the minor shrines to be destroyed currently sets the minor shrine count to morality count – 1, it should be set morality count to morality count – 1. While this is a minor issue I will issue another patch in the future correcting that. However it makes the evil ending in the Dalius path a little harder to achieve.Thank you, for your kind review, it had occurred to me to make Brissa hostile during the circumstance you mentioned. The reason I didn’t was the problem of reflagging the blue heroes. I can trigger all resources, cities and creatures that blue possesses but not blue heroes or creatures stacks that may be wandering around. Heroes may not trigger since the change owner script stays with the army and not the hero. So there is the possibility that Brissa herself may stay an ally. The same issues apply to changing the player’s color, some may but what a mess if HP changed to the new color but Lamentia didn’t. So that was one idea that could not be executed due to the editor’s limitation. There is a heavy morality penalty for failing to surrender the town and that will affect the ending.
Unfortunately I believe a majority of players who have undertaken the task of playing Lamentia’s Story do not take the time to enjoy the story or take note of the clues that are frequently given, but that’s fine. I created this for those that are RPG fan’s but hopefully the others enjoy the challenge of the maps. I can say that creating Lamentia's Story and Dragon’s Fate (and working with BDJ on TCC) was the most fun I have had gaming since Wizardry 8 and MM 8 where released.
Mala Ipsa Nova
Hi Jeff
Thanks for your answer! Your two campaigns rank among the top campaigns I've ever played!
(I've played since Heroes I, so that's quite a lot of campaigns actually)
Hmm... I'm afraid I've already erased my savegames... pity, pity. Can you tell me the ending then? I just wanna know how it ends for Lamentia if she was a mean, ruthless person!
>>First answering your question, the area with the Dark Champion line up is entered as an evil ending to the Dalius path. Now it is possible that you only need to replay the last map of the Dalius route. To have any chance you must steal the Staff of Disruption and only collect the first bounty. If you stole any of the possible items in the campaign that will help; if you killed the gator and got the boots that would help also.
-=--=
About the Talon campaign, I actually wrote a long review cum critique couple years ago, but eventually decided not to post it because it sounded a bit too critical. I'm a writer, so I look from the POV of a writer. While I praised the campaign highly for things ranging from character development to map aesthetics, balanced challenges, etc., the story content created frustration which detracted from the pleasure of playing your map.
Basically it is very tough to write a story that appeals to most people. Most people don't like tragedies, so it takes great skill to write one.
I was quite frustrated at the end of Talon's campaign because of the 'Deus ex machina' nature of Jarvis. After spending such a long time playing through this campaign, fighting hundreds of battles and leveling my heroes to godly status, it was infuriating to read the story and find Jarvis sitting around smirking at Talon, waving his hand and killing my heroes in a flash, making Talon lose tons of stats at every meeting just because the mapmaker wanted it. It also made me feel that Jarvis was so all-powerful and all-knowing that he had set up the entire campaign for me (the gamer) to play for Jarvis' entertainment.
Lamentia's story put an end to my frustrations. The story is nicely balanced - so well balanced that I really didn't know how it would end. Lamentia's Story was perfect in that the gamer (me) is truly left to decide on his life choices (good, bad, expedient) with only his own conscience to guide him.
This reminds me of that Heroes V TOTE map (was it Mercenaries by Sarvi?) where you play a Dwarf hero who has to hire troops to keep fighting. There were plenty of moral choices to make, and the mapmaker even provided a handy 'moral-o-meter' underground to visit whenever I started doubting myself.
Thanks for your answer! Your two campaigns rank among the top campaigns I've ever played!
(I've played since Heroes I, so that's quite a lot of campaigns actually)
Hmm... I'm afraid I've already erased my savegames... pity, pity. Can you tell me the ending then? I just wanna know how it ends for Lamentia if she was a mean, ruthless person!
>>First answering your question, the area with the Dark Champion line up is entered as an evil ending to the Dalius path. Now it is possible that you only need to replay the last map of the Dalius route. To have any chance you must steal the Staff of Disruption and only collect the first bounty. If you stole any of the possible items in the campaign that will help; if you killed the gator and got the boots that would help also.
-=--=
About the Talon campaign, I actually wrote a long review cum critique couple years ago, but eventually decided not to post it because it sounded a bit too critical. I'm a writer, so I look from the POV of a writer. While I praised the campaign highly for things ranging from character development to map aesthetics, balanced challenges, etc., the story content created frustration which detracted from the pleasure of playing your map.
Basically it is very tough to write a story that appeals to most people. Most people don't like tragedies, so it takes great skill to write one.
I was quite frustrated at the end of Talon's campaign because of the 'Deus ex machina' nature of Jarvis. After spending such a long time playing through this campaign, fighting hundreds of battles and leveling my heroes to godly status, it was infuriating to read the story and find Jarvis sitting around smirking at Talon, waving his hand and killing my heroes in a flash, making Talon lose tons of stats at every meeting just because the mapmaker wanted it. It also made me feel that Jarvis was so all-powerful and all-knowing that he had set up the entire campaign for me (the gamer) to play for Jarvis' entertainment.
Lamentia's story put an end to my frustrations. The story is nicely balanced - so well balanced that I really didn't know how it would end. Lamentia's Story was perfect in that the gamer (me) is truly left to decide on his life choices (good, bad, expedient) with only his own conscience to guide him.
This reminds me of that Heroes V TOTE map (was it Mercenaries by Sarvi?) where you play a Dwarf hero who has to hire troops to keep fighting. There were plenty of moral choices to make, and the mapmaker even provided a handy 'moral-o-meter' underground to visit whenever I started doubting myself.
I will pm you the last ending, there are no great battles but a set up for a potential sequel, where you would get a chance to finally face up to Jarvis. As of right now I have no plans for any sequels as I believe H-IV has about run its course. Seven years for a game that is either hated or loved isn’t bad.cjlee wrote: I was quite frustrated at the end of Talon's campaign because of the 'Deus ex machina' nature of Jarvis. After spending such a long time playing through this campaign, fighting hundreds of battles and leveling my heroes to godly status, it was infuriating to read the story and find Jarvis sitting around smirking at Talon, waving his hand and killing my heroes in a flash, making Talon lose tons of stats at every meeting just because the mapmaker wanted it. It also made me feel that Jarvis was so all-powerful and all-knowing that he had set up the entire campaign for me (the gamer) to play for Jarvis' entertainment.
I understand your frustration about Jarvis, but it was never my intent to have that final show down. In hindsight it may have been quite a climatic battle to end it. Yet what makes you think that Jarvis wasn’t manipulating Talon and party to exactly the end he wanted.
Anyway, it was my first attempt at story creation (and my first maps) hopefully LS was an improvement in both areas.Mala Ipsa Nova
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