H3: What Are the Best First Level Troops?

[ThunderTitan]

Why did they replace the Halflings anyway?

[Nucleon]

Yes, back when RoE was released, Tower heroes came with about 80 gremlins. Coupled with the fact that troops and movement points were reset when the hero fled, amassing huge amounts of gremlins became easy if you had some luck with what you had near your castle.

Uh-hu. Also, the early patches also limited the number of troops tavern heroes could get beyond the first pair, thus setting the deathblow of the famed "Gremlin Rush".

I just noticed something- the thread topic asks for best Level 1 creature, but the question above the poll asks about favourite. Since these aren't the same (I clearly wouldn't have voted Gnolls if it were for "best" creature), I would like to know which one is intended?

Eerr... yes, of course. Well, as "the best" is highly subjective, Nucleon think He should have stuck with "Your Favorite", going along with why is it so. Think of the title as simply a dishonest catch...

[ThunderTitan]

I'm pretty sure he can change the thread title by Editing his post.

[Nucleon]

If WoG's troop experience system is on, well there's no doubts that Centaurs are coming out of this as the indisputed winners; You see, the basic, brown ones can shoot as soon as they reach lvl6 -which takes no time at all with 1st lvl units. No contest here, althought the Pikemen with their "breath" attack reveal themselves quite useful too.

However, if we stick to non-WoG, SoD H3, Sprites are quite a deal: Cheap as mud, fast and no retaliation. Nucleon just wish they were as sexy as the pixies, but you can't have it all, right?

Hafling (more lkeable Gremlins, with increased luck), Gnolls (fast and tough) as well as Centaurs (for aformentionned reasons) are close seconds.

[Pacifist]

I voted halberdiers. They are only one square and are very sturdy in melee. The advantage of speed of the centaurs is compensated by their better defence and the fact that they are more difficult to surround if they put themselves in a corner (allowing them to beat greater armies). Well there is no general situation, so I just voted for preference

[DaemianLucifer]

Cheap as mud, fast and no retaliation..

You are paying for your mud? Maybe in form of earth elementals.BUt those are more expensive then sprites,so..

[Nucleon]

I voted halberdiers. They are only one square and are very sturdy in melee. The advantage of speed of the centaurs is compensated by their better defence and the fact that they are more difficult to surround if they put themselves in a corner (allowing them to beat greater armies). Well there is no general situation, so I just voted for preference

That's an interesting point of view, few people are bringing it.

Nucleon thinks that "two squares" creatures are better suited for defense (because they cover more angle protecting shooters), but disavantaged in attack, where they sometime have trouble squeezing throught.

[Vlad976]

vote Halflings
Because.

[LordHoborgXVII]

I'd have to go for the skellies. Although they tend to die like flies, the fact that you can amass huge numbers of them makes them quite useful. Gremlins are useful due to their ranged attack, but I usually find them to be less survivable. Goblins and gnolls are strictly meat shields, as are imps. Pikemen and Centaurs are also some of my favorite level ones, because they are sturdy enough to survive fairly well, and can deal decent damage. Pikemen especially are quite useful in the early stages of the game.

[kitcat0]

Sprites - fast and no retal.

[Black Ghost]

Centaut chieftain rulez

Pikeman is a bit stronger, but too slow to be #1. Centaur and Upg. Centaurs are my favourite, and once again Rampart seemes to be my favourite and best fraction...

[Gljivko a.k.a Vortex]

Voted for gremlins -> master gremlins

IMO, the best lvl 1 creature upgrade, especially useful on small maps. It really helped me on map Elbow Room on impossible difficulty, hire few tower heroes and upgrade workshop is cheesy but helpful tactic

[SmokingBarrel]

I voted trogs and their infernal kin. Looks good man, like their weapons, how they die...

There are halflings? Can't recall...since when are there halflings in heroes 3?

[ThunderTitan]

I voted trogs and their infernal kin. Looks good man, like their weapons, how they die...

There are halflings? Can't recall...since when are there halflings in heroes 3?

AB added them as neutrals. They looked like crap. Damn Gremlins...

[Banedon]

In the original game, new tower heroes started with like 60 gremlins. In small maps, tower could buy an additional hero, upgrade the workshop and start off towards an opponent with about 150 master gremlins. There's little any side could do about that.

They can! Inferno can built the Fire Lake (and upgrade it) wherupon 2 Efreet Sultans would be more than enough to annihilate 150 Master Gremlins. Stronghold can do the same with Thunderbirds, Rampart and Castle can rely on their own Ranged stacks, Dungeon can use their spells...

[Gaidal Cain]

Change the 150 for 500 gremlins then... The gremlin rush was based on rehiring heroes, not just hiring them...

[wimfrits]

Change the 150 for 500 gremlins then... The gremlin rush was based on rehiring heroes, not just hiring them...

I completely forgot that. They fixed both, right? Less starting gremlins (30+) for a new hero and only 1 unit for rehired fled heroes.

[Pacifist]

The other factions could do the same thing too. The marksman+pikeman rush, the trog rush, the squeletton transformer rush, the grand-elves rush, etc,...
It only comes to a question of balance of starting troops. If it was imbalanced before the fixes, then it's still imballanced now. I simulated a gremlin rush vs a castle (master gremlins+ obsidian gargoyles vs halberdiers + marksman) . The castle won after 4 weeks growth. Everything depends on battle tactics, the master gremlins are very bad at melee. A tactician can block them in 2 turns, then it's easy. Numbers favor the best creatures (in this case the halberdiers).
It was good it was fixed but it was not really necessary.

edit: sorry I didn't count the fact that there were more gremlins before the fix. My simulation is not relevant then. But I still think that could be countered (and I did it on some occasions).

[Gljivko a.k.a Vortex]

The other factions could do the same thing too. The marksman+pikeman rush, the trog rush, the squeletton transformer rush, the grand-elves rush, etc,...

In that case, let us not forget about some high lvl units rush, i. e. wyvern rush (I think they can be built at second day) and behemoth rush (built at 3rd day)
So if we look carefully, every faction can (in some way) provide a rush tactic, though it varies in a way of resource requierment/management.

[wimfrits]

edit: sorry I didn't count the fact that there were more gremlins before the fix. My simulation is not relevant then. But I still think that could be countered (and I did it on some occasions).

Sure. But if 2 equally skilled players meet early game and 1 of them is using the gremlin-rush strategy, I think that player on average will have the advantage.

The 50% decrease in tower starting army of the fix should implicate that either the before- or after situation was imbalanced.
I think both are imbalanced. Too strong before the fix and too weak after..