MM History question

[arturchix]

I think, here.

[Avonu]

Could somebody make a screenshot of Escaton's "speech" about Kreegans? I want to check something.

[Kareeah Indaga]

Thanks, arturchix!

Could somebody make a screenshot of Escaton's "speech" about Kreegans? I want to check something.

I have several in my archives. Do you want the whole thing or just parts of it?

[Avonu]

One screenshot (part) will be enough.

[Kareeah Indaga]

All right then, which part? He has over a dozen text blurbs when you first talk to him, and there are a few that deal with the Kreegan.

[Avonu]

But only four parts about Kreegans.
If you could post screen with these text (when you click "dialog" Kreegans) I would be thankful.
And could you also can post screenshot (or text) about arrived of Ironfists to Jadame from "history book" (hourglass icon IIRC) all maybe all text from "history book".
I haven't MM8 in English and I suspect that translation of my game is not correct.

[Kareeah Indaga]

Let me know if this isn’t it:
[img=http://img254.imageshack.us/img254/7671/foravonuwv3.th.png]

And Ironfists' Arrival:
[img=http://img130.imageshack.us/img130/8219/foravonu2qh7.th.png]

[Avonu]

Thank you.
I wanted to know how Kreegans were named in MM8 - because in MM6-7 they are "the Kreegan" but in H3:RoE and H3:AB they are "the Kreegans".
So I didn't know which form was "true" (well, I can always named them Devils or Demons ).

[Kareeah Indaga]

Ah, I see. (Why didn’t you just say so?? I could have answered a lot faster if I’d known that was what you wanted.) There are a couple of minor irregularities like that in the games. Like, people from Krewlod have been called Krewlodian, Krewlish and just Krewlods, and the little black boxes are both Command Cubes and Control Cubes.

Personally I like to go with “Kreegan” for the pluralization, but then I’m biased.

[Avonu]

Simply, I wanted to have a "proof".
Thanks once again.

[Kareeah Indaga]

All right then. You’re welcome.

Now my turn to ask a question for anyone with the original (read: non-Complete) version of Armageddon’s Blade.

The first time I beat the AB campaign it was with the ‘original’ AB version I’d borrowed from a friend. On that play through, in the second map (or rather, the one of the first two with Gelu in it since it seems they can be played in either order, but it was the second map for me on that run) I remember reading a text blurb about Gelu having a dream about AB destroying the world. However, I’ve gone back and played that map several times with Complete since then, occasionally playing through several months of game time specifically to look for it, but that event is nowhere to be found. My question is this: has anyone with the original AB edition seen it? I’d like to know if I imagined it, or if it was edited out in later incarnations of the expansion along with Ignatious’ (sp?) temper…

Oh! And before I forget, I did some rough estimates for Morglin’s arrival with the new data (thank you Avonu!), it may not be perfect but here’s what I arrived at:

1109 assuming Enrothian calendar
1119 assuming VARN 4 calendar
1123 Enroth conquered
1148 Morglin dies
1151 Succession Wars begin
1154 Succession Wars end (some time before May of that year)
(etc.)

[Ribannah]

From the MM6 manual it appears that Roland Ironfist started his quest in 1152 AS, so apparently some dates were changed later.
It would be logical for the succession wars to start right after the death of Morglin, and of course Nicolai must have been born before Roland left since Roland wrote to him.
That would make Nicolai 13 years of age at the start of MM6, still young enough to want to go with the circus perhaps.
Now the question is, was Catherine only 17 when she married Roland?

[Avonu]

In MM6 manual is mistake - it should be 1162 AS:

Having cheated death during the Night of Shooting Stars, you find yourself as far from your village of Sweet Water as old Falagar’s magic could take you.
Three years have passed while Falagar imparted what knowledge he could to train you in your chosen professions.

... and game started in 1165 AS - ten years after H2 - and in H2 there are no signs of Nicolai or even Catherine - it seems (to me) that Roland get married after Sucession Wars.

The first time I beat the AB campaign it was with the ‘original’ AB version I’d borrowed from a friend. On that play through, in the second map (or rather, the one of the first two with Gelu in it since it seems they can be played in either order, but it was the second map for me on that run) I remember reading a text blurb about Gelu having a dream about AB destroying the world.

I didn't find any text about this dream first/second mission - maybe in next Gelu's scenario it is, but his first scenario last text are about Ciele, Fiur, Erdamon and some wound soldier - all informing about Xeron. There are no futher text in this mission (checked - pressing end turn button until 13-th month - and I have AB 2.1.0.0).

1151 Succession Wars begin
1154 Succession Wars end

That are four years not three.

[Ribannah]

In MM6 manual is mistake - it should be 1162 AS:

Having cheated death during the Night of Shooting Stars, you find yourself as far from your village of Sweet Water as old Falagar’s magic could take you.
Three years have passed while Falagar imparted what knowledge he could to train you in your chosen professions.

Is there any evidence that the Night of the Shooting Stars is the reason for Roland's departure?

[Avonu]

Not directly - reason of Roland's departure was missing of Lord Kilburn. But in Roland's letters from his expedition is mention about devils - Kreegans with he enconter in 1152 (but Night of the Shooting Star was in 1162 - even in H3 is mention about that).

EDIT:
One more thing - Roland in AB and MM8 said that he was prisoner of Devils over six years.

First letter to Catherine - July 28, 1152:
(...) As you must understand, this trip could not be avoided. Both the Kilburn investigation and the Blackshire appointment requiremy personal attention, and I haven t visited the Northwest in ages.(...)
(...)Of the devils that some say plague towns in the Northwest, we have only rumors. We have not yet encountered a soul who claims to have seen one himself, nor anyone who has found the bodies of Lord Kilburn and his Rangers. The only devils we have seen are these huge mosquitoes that love the swamplands so much. Wretched pests! My place in history would be assured if I could only think of a way to rid the world of such nuisances. No, Catherine, Lord Kilburn was probably slain by something much more mundane than devils N perhaps a pair of dragons or a large band of highwaymen. (...)

Third letter:
August 11, 1152
Dear Catherine,
I cannot honestly say that our trip to Edenbrook was uneventful. As we approached the town we encountered a trickle of refugees fleeing Edenbrook that gradually increased to a flood. When questioned, they told us that an army of devils had been spotted walking and hopping toward Edenbrook N a town with no wall and no standing garrison. I immediately increased our pace to reach the town before the monsters could sack it.
It was well that I did, for our arrival was but hours ahead of the enemy. Exhausted and ill-prepared to fight against an unknown enemy, my men nonetheless girded for battle. I ordered archers to the hilltop overlooking the town, and infantry to hide amongst the houses near the road, with flanking cavalry out of sight around the hill. Thirty men on horseback were sent on ahead to lure the enemy into the trap.
It worked. The devils must have lacked even rudimentary discipline or intelligence, for they immediately gave chase to my men. The horsemen raced past the archers hiding below the crest of the hill, and passed into town with the devils hot on their heels; the bait was taken, the trap sprung. As hundreds of the most filthy, vicious, and stupid beasts ever to draw breath filled the road beneath the hill, I gave the archers the signal. Arrows rained down upon the devils from above while the infantry sprang from their hiding places to bar entrance to the town. Before the first shock of the two armies clash faded, the light cavalry rode around the hill, charging into the main mass of devils with lance and sword.
Then the battle began in earnest, and it was all we could do to hold our lines against the demonic horde. Though the battle was short, the tales of valor and bravery are many. Sir Ragnar rescued Chief Sorcerer Tanir from certain death, when he was set upon by no less than five devils, after his fireball spell failed. Ragnar charged into the group swinging wildly and screaming like a barbarian. His first swing lopped one head clean off while the next skewered an enemy through its black heart. The other three devils quickly overcame him, but a recovered Tanir slew all three with his famed insides out spell in time to save Sir Ragnar. Youll be happy to hear that he is recovering nicely at the House of Healing in Edenbrook and will be out of bed in no time. Unfortunately, many were not so lucky. Others who survived the combat itself contracted a disease our healer says was caused by the filthy condition of the devils claws. In all, eighty-three men fell in the fight against these devils. Yet, we have providence to thank that our fortuitous arrival in Edenbrooks hour of need prevented the death of hundreds more. The devils suffered much heavier losses - 272 dead. The survivors, - much less than half, thankfully - fled as one, on some sort of unseen signal, and we were too exhausted to give chase. After a short rest here we will hunt them down and finish them off.
I know you will want to know that I have survived the battle unscathed. I fear that what I have just written may be disquieting, but you would never forgive me for telling you anything but the truth. I am entrusting my advisor Sulman to take care of the detail of informing the families of the fallen as I have entrusted him with so many other things, including the delivery of these letters to you. He will handle the matter with tact, and can be relied on to select the speediest messengers for my letters!

Eternally,
Roland Ironfist
p.s. I will send another letter after we have caught up to that demonic
army and dispatched it. You and Nicolai should hear from me in about a week.

[Ribannah]

If he was captured later in 1162, his imprisonment lasted less than six years, since I liberated him on April 26 of 1168.

Is there any evidence that the Night of the Shooting Stars was the day the Kreegan arrived?

[Avonu]

If he was captured later in 1162, his imprisonment lasted less than six years, since I liberated him on April 26 of 1168.

Did you also turn to flesh Archibald on 11 June 1165 - because he note this date in his journal as a day of his freedom?

Is there any evidence that the Night of the Shooting Stars was the day the Kreegan arrived?

H3:AB mission 1 (Queen Catherine) - middle border gate:
"That was until the Night of Shooting Stars when the Kreegans came."

NPC's text from MM6:
Shooting Stars - "All of the really bad disasters started happening after the Night of the Shooting Stars two years ago. Not much has gone right since then, except the Temple of Baa. They really help people. They also say that King Roland must have done something awful, 'cause the stars were avenging angels falling from Heaven to punish the wicked."

Wastelands - "Paradise Valley is no more. All that's left from the Night of the Shooting Stars is a barren wasteland. I've seen it, but I didn't have the courage to venture into it. I'm not sure what sort of acts the people of Paradise Valley did to justify that sort of Heavenly retribution, but they must have been foul indeed."

Paradise Valley - "Not anymore it isn't! Since the devils came, Paradise Valley is a barren wasteland infested with hundreds of devils. No one goes in there and survives!"

Night of Shooting Stars - "I fear the Night of Shooting Stars was an omen of the worst kind. It didn't take long for our good king to disappear after that night, and for the Temple of Baa to arrive, did it? And all this talk about devils in the west…these are evil omens indeed!"

Ruin of Sweet Water - "Sweet Water was an excellent venue for my music before the Night of Shooting Stars. Now the road to that town is infested with devils, and they say the town is no more." Fall of Roland They say the king was last seen fleeing toward Castle Kriegspire with an army of devils following him. He never returned. I think we may have to face up to the possibility that our good king was killed by those monsters.

Astrology - "Astrology is often sneered at, but I tell you it's very real and important. The most significant astrological event recently was that shooting star that fell from the sky out of Sagittarius. It portends upheaval, disaster, and opportunity for the entire world."

and of course:

Having cheated death during the Night of Shooting Stars, you find yourself as far from your village of Sweet Water as old Falagar’s magic could take you. (...)

...and all what Falagar said in MM6 intro.

And questions:
1. MM6 - Is Pleasant Valley from just another name of Paradise Valley or one of this name is name of town in Paradise Valley outdoor (region)?
Because some text suggest that Pleasant Valley is in Sweet Water outdoor:



2. Anybody knows something about two removed quests from MM7?
Killed specific monster (Armsmaster GM quest)
Completed fountain quest (Water Magic GM)

[Ribannah]

Thanks, this is convincing enough (although I freed Archie on January 7 ).

At the moment I have:

Years BS Time of Wonders
Years AS After Silence
ca. 350 BS The Ancients meet the Kreegan, according to the Oracle
ca. 12 BS Reign of Colonial Governor Padish
ca. 10 BS Day of Fire
1 AS The Silence
1st century AS Governorship overcome by rebels
113 AS Heavenly Forge breaks down
ca. 428 AS The Brotherhood develops Dark Magic
ca. 580 AS Birth of David Gryphonheart IV
624 AS Start of the Timber Wars
789 AS End of the Timber Wars
790 AS Rise of Phynaxia
864 AS Fall of Phynaxia to Elven offensive
ca. 870 AS Reign of Taledon V
881 AS Death of Taledon V
ca. 900 AS War of Dove and Crow
ca. 1075 AS Birth of Morglin Ironfist
1083 AS MM Tribute, Sun and Moon churches destroyed
ca. 1100 AS Birth of Nicolas Gryphonheart
ca. 1110 AS Goblin-Ogre wars of Gowdar Deep
ca. 1120 AS Birth of Roland Ironfist
ca. 1129 AS Nicolas Gryphonheart marries Gwenllian
ca. 1130 AS Birth of Catherine Gryphonheart
ca. 1140 AS The Sea of Mist
ca. 1148 AS Morglin Ironfist dies of old age, start of succession wars
ca. 1150 AS End of succession wars, marriage of Roland Ironfist and Catherine Gryphonheart
ca. 1151 AS Birth of Nicolai Ironfist
1152 AS Roland Ironfist begins his quest
1153 AS Catherine's mother and sister killed in ambush
1161 AS Night of the Shooting Stars
1165 AS Mandate of Heaven
1167 AS Trials of Nicolai, landing of the Advisors
1168 AS For Blood and Honor, Roland rescued
1172 AS Day of the Destroyer
ca. 1175 AS Armageddon

So, in summary, what should be changed, and what can be added?

[Kareeah Indaga]

1151 Succession Wars begin
1154 Succession Wars end

That are four years not three.

Eh?

1151 – 0 years since start (Start)
1152 – 1 year since start
1153 – 2 years since start
1154 – 3 years since start (End)

Three years. How are you getting four?

So, in summary, what should be changed, and what can be added?

King Nicolas and Queen Gwenllian married 1133 A.S (Nethergods)
Queen Catherine born less than one year later, so 1134 (Nethergods)
Her sister Beatrice was born when Queen Catherine was seven, so 1141 (Nethergods)
Two years after June of 1151 Queen Gwenllian and Princess Beatrice killed 1153 (Nethergods)

King Gryphonheart poisoned at age 54, (Nethergods) killed around 1164 (Archibald remarked she’d left five months prior in his June 1165 entry, and with it being ~6 week journey between the two continents give or take for the news to travel, and with some of the other comments made in the Nethergods info, it seems he died in the later part of 1164—I thought I had more concrete evidence for that, but I can’t find it), which makes his year of birth ~1110.

Queen Catherine married to King Roland August 1st, 1154 (Wayback)
Nicholai born 1155 (‘the next year’ from above) (Wayback)

More later.

[Avonu]

Eh?

1151 – 0 years since start (Start)
1152 – 1 year since start
1153 – 2 years since start
1154 – 3 years since start (End)

Three years. How are you getting four?

1151 - First year of war
1152 - Second year of war
1153 - Third year of war
1154 - Fourth year of war

...so someone in 1153 AS could said that war last three years.

Of course, Sucession Wars didn't started 1 January and finished 28 December (or mayby? ) and your count is probably better than my.

King Gryphonheart poisoned at age 54, (Nethergods) killed around 1164 (Archibald remarked she’d left five months prior in his June 1165 entry, and with it being ~6 week journey between the two continents give or take for the news to travel, and with some of the other comments made in the Nethergods info, it seems he died in the later part of 1164—I thought I had more concrete evidence for that, but I can’t find it), which makes his year of birth ~1110.

Journey from Enroth to Antagarich takes three weeks (Cathrine sail with large fleet - it is slower way than one ship sail and she also encounter some Regnans - so her journey takes about seven weeks).
And to send messages they have so kind of Internet or rather "crystalballnet" (MM6 outro and Archibald's ball).