The Three Rules of Nival

[azzy]

Jolly Joker said it better than everyone:

If you HAVE fun, don't let yourself tell you otherwise from some people who don't. On the other hand, if you don't have fun, don't let yourself tell that you should have from those who do.

I dont understand what is the idea behind all the whining and flame, for me its kind of... well - childish. The first heroes I played was the 2nd, I still play HoMM 3 from time to time, I've gone through heroes 1 and King's Bounty as well several years ago - just for fun and to explore the history of the game. I wasnt dissapointed by any of those great games (even by KB, which I played in 2001) because there is a tremendous amount of creativity and tons of fun assosiated with them.
The only game in the series I am not that enthusiastic about is HoMM 4 and thats because I had so HUGE expectations about it, that I guess I was really dissapointed by it. However I didn't blame the game, nor the developers (RIP 3do), but it just wasnt my game. I played through the campaigns of the original, but didnt bother buy the expansions (maybe a mistake, judging by the size of the HoMM 4 community, I dont know, but thats my way to deal with games I dont like). I am seasoned enough in the M&M universe to understand the depth and complexity of the 4th HoMM, but it was not appealing enough for me to make me want to get to the botom of it, and invest n x 100h of my free time for it.

However non of this made me complain like a spoiled brat about anything about the game (in my oppinion its conception is well thought and meaningfull, just not appealing to me). What I have I guess is RESPECT for those who made effort to entertain me, and those who are entertained by that product.

So to all who just wait for every opportunity to make fun/complain/insult/etc. anything connected with HoMM V, pleace know that you are being DISRESPECTFUL, ANNOYING, and even sometimes OFFENSIVE.

If you feel thats the way to contribue to a community, please put a second thought to it.

[DaemianLucifer]

(maybe a mistake, judging by the size of the HoMM 4 community, I dont know, but thats my way to deal with games I dont like)

Nope,those were just crap.You shouldve tried equilibris,though.

So to all who just wait for every opportunity to make fun/complain/insult/etc. anything connected with HoMM V, pleace know that you are being DISRESPECTFUL, ANNOYING, and even sometimes OFFENSIVE.

Really?Disrespectful eh?So,you pay for something,and then you have no right to say a word about it because youll be disrespectful,annoying and offensive?We should all just shut up and let the developers do whatever they want,and take it all like grown ups?Sorry to burst your bubble,but if everyone would just shut up and mindlessly take it up the.....thered be a lot of crappy products out there,and very few of the trully good ones...Oh,wait...There already are a bunch of crappy products there and just a few good ones...

[zuraffo]

Okay so I exagerated a bit. IMHO it's unfair to compare older games with newer games. The complexity just doesn't match. Did it occur to anyone that older games are "simpler" to test? Also the patching process actually made it possible developers to release a game and patch it later.

Looking back in the past five years, I can honestly say I have always waited until a game has stable patch before considering buying the game.

Granted, as a consumer I of course hope all developers can release polished products like Blizzard, but it's a tall order and I just wanted to be fair to NIVAL.

In any case, as Jolly Joker pointed out, this discussion is mooted since I have enjoyed HoMMV and will continue to do so regardless of what's other think. So... peace out

[Adicto]

So to all who just wait for every opportunity to make fun/complain/insult/etc. anything connected with HoMM V, pleace know that you are being DISRESPECTFUL, ANNOYING, and even sometimes OFFENSIVE

Disrespectful, annoying and offensive would be if I say to you: "go to hell, trained seal!", but if I only express my displeasure about a defective product (I've paid for it!) together with my opinion about the people in charge, I'm exerting my right.

[DaemianLucifer]

Okay so I exagerated a bit. IMHO it's unfair to compare older games with newer games. The complexity just doesn't match. Did it occur to anyone that older games are "simpler" to test?

True,but it also became easier to do certain things,AI algorhityms improved,processors became faster,memory is more abudant,internet made it possible for people to work from anywhere in the world,etc.So its neither easier nor harder now than before.

Also the patching process actually made it possible developers to release a game and patch it later.

Yup,and that also has two sides.The good side is that mistakes that slipped by can be corrected afterwards.Bad side is that the developers can speed up the process and release the game earlier by cutting corners,knowing that theyll fix them later(if they feel like it,that is).

Granted, as a consumer I of course hope all developers can release polished products like Blizzard, but it's a tall order and I just wanted to be fair to NIVAL.

Capitalizm is ruthless,you cant be fair towards someone.

[val-gaav]

Well I like heroes V ... as much as i agree that game was unfinished after realese I must also say that with the recent patches game is much better ... Obviously with 1.3 the game was/is what it shold be on realese date ... unfortunatly it's normal novadays to realese unfinished products for any game company:(

and yes it gives me fun. In fact I see that many things here are better then in HoMM 3.

many things still need to get better like balance or the HoF no fortress bug ...(yeah a major mistake from nival , but hey they said it will be fixed with next patch so I do not see a big problem here , yes it's flustraiting etc )

but I simply love that they do realese patches monthly and I do hope that the last patch will be like 1.20 or over that number

Patches are the way to make a great balanced game (looks on Starcraft)

anyway I cannot understand why so many people are so much offensive and cannot see the good part of the game ?

Personally I like the game , and IMO with next patches it will only get better and may become the best of HoMM series.

[DaemianLucifer]

but I simply love that they do realese patches monthly and I do hope that the last patch will be like 1.20 or over that number

Actually,FoH is version 2.2,so the last patch will be something like 3.5,or 4.5,or similar.Oh,and about the monthly part

[nosfe]

it makes me sick whenever i look at neverwinter nights2 and how the release was handled compared to h5; I mean, before the nwn2 came out obsidian made available the "map editor" because they realized that the reason why nwn1 had such a long life was because of the fan made modules and i believe thats one of the big reasons why the heroes franchise endured so long; what did nival do? they said that they don't care about the fans and their content and delayed the map editor....
Also the campaign was for me a big selling point for H3 and H4, the undead campaign from H4 and the swamp campaign from H3 AB were my favorites, with H5?.... i've forgotten the names of the characters halfway through the campaign, and in HoF it was no different, i've forgotten the names of the characters from the start of that campaign by the start of mission4 and only wanted to get over it already
My biggest problem when HoF came was that i had the feeling that thats what H5 should have been to begin with(map editor, caravan, etc); though there still are a lot of things to fix in H5...
And another thing, they are working on 1.5 which will bring many great new wonderful things?? that really make me sick; was it that hard to implement these new improvements with the expansion? Bah, i much prefer the blizzard way of making games with their "it will be done when it will be done" attitude. At least when they finally release a game you know that you get quality and not some product that feels(and is) rushed by the release date

don't even know why i bother to write these things, not like it's gonna make any difference

[Mightor Magic]

I like Heroes 5. It is a little on the pretty side for a turn-based strategy game but it's not that bad gamewise. Example: For the longest time, I only had Heroes 3 without any of the expansion packs or down loaded maps or patches.

No Random maps, no corrected monster stats plus a few bugs {Unbeatable enemy in campaign sort of thing, you know who I mean}. It was fun and I liked what I played. The Expansions improved the gameplay massively though, even if the new campaigns were on the insane side.

Nival is trying to restart the Heroes series by picking some features from some games and ignoring others. So, it will take time to reach the final product.

I'm not appologizing for Nival as I think Heroes V should have been better out of the box and it should have come with a Map editor. But I can't really judge the final game until the last expansion/patch.

[Jolly Joker]

Well, I don't think that making the editor available before the release of the game would have been such a good idea. I mean, how are you supposed to make a map for H 5 when you don't know how everything is working?
Something like a month or six weeks after the game release would have been nice. And, no I don't think the editor had to be part of the initial release; everyone who plays user made maps - or want to make them - will have access to the web and update.
Speaking of Blizzard: THEY have the patching eternal motto on their flags as well, for all I know, right? So keeping games from being published doesn't keep them from needing patches, even if it's only balancing patches.

[GatorG]

HoMM V was a game by a new company. Sure, they didn't hit the spot with the first installment, but everyone has said they did a much better job on the second installment.

A wonderful game is continued and that's the bottom line...

G (-:

[azzy]

Sorry to burst your bubble,but if everyone would just shut up and mindlessly take it up the.....thered be a lot of crappy products out there,and very few of the trully good ones...

lol indeed (I have a very vivid imagination I guess...)

As for the complaining - pointless whining is... well POINTLESS. The discussion about the path the gaming industry has taken, and what do the gamers recieve for their money is so vast and sad, that I have no intention on starting it. I only would like to remind you of the creativity of the games 10-15 years ago, when the graphics didnt count that much and the main criteria for a siccessfull game was its originality, when now originality is a curse because fewer and fewer people not only in the states, but all around the globe are afraid of everything new, untraditional, and out of the mainstream. And this trend is actually killing the gameplay, but just few seem to realize it under the shiny cover of 3D wonder-draphics.

HoMM V for me is the desired drop of the old spirit in gaming I crave of so much. A very complex and deep gameplay in combination with fresh ideas (burn me alive, but the skill system in HoMM V is f***ing genious) and wonderful tradition. HoMM V is the HoMM of the mew millenium because it has the spirit of Heroes 3 so deeply implemented in its fabric, that it reminds me of the oldschool that I miss so much. Infact with the todays standards it is practically impossible to create a game so comlex and a gameplay so multy-leveled, without having bugs or imbalances. In nowadays profit-here-and-now oriented industry a 5 years developing process and a massive one-year beta testing sounds like tales of little green men raping cattle to me, and thare is no other way I can think of makeing a game like HoMM the way it should be. We should be realists. I see that Nival are trying to listen to the community, fix bugs, correct the imba... and this is praiseworthy. Also tell me who's fault is it when a game is rushed to the market, is it the developer, or the publisher who is to be balmed?

I find it disrespectul indeed, in the way of spitting in somewone's face, even thaugh he put his best in his work. And Nival is not a newly born game studio with 5,1/2 enthusiasts who only read some books on programming... I played few of their previous games and they are one of the most if not THE MOST creative BIG game studios there are. They are responsible for a whole new game ganre if you dont remember Rage of Mages (rts/rpg) from which companies like Blizzard benefit today... And I truly dont believe those guys are lazy and sloppy and the fact that they are from Russia doesnt mean they are less talanted than other developers. But that infact is not for me judge... just tell me a better strategy game than HoMM V (nomatter if it is real-time, turn-based, or civ-clone) from Warcraft up to now and count how many years this makes.

[Alamar]

I agree with many things that JJ expressed in his quote. I wil take some slight exception to one point though:

they are intent to make it work and they don't hesitate to admit a mistake and change it when they see one.

I don't honestly believe that the developer believes many decisions that they have made are wrong. They have accused the fans of the game on more than one occassion of "whining" and [paraphrase] bullying UBI into forcing Nival to make changes.

NOTE: Some believe that it took a fan revolt ["save heroes" campaign] in order to force Nival to make changes and delay the game a little bit so that it was somewhat more stable on release.

[ThunderTitan]

"just tell me a better strategy game than HoMM V from Warcraft up to now"

WH40k: DoW.

[azzy]

I expected exactly this title to come up

Sorry but i havent played it yet, infact i dont have time to play a lot and all my gaming time is consumed by heroes. My bad.

edit:
by Warcraft i meant WC3 of course (no pun intended)

Putting Company of Heroes (which refuses to start on my pc) and Generals before Heroes is strange - imo 3d graphics kills the dinamics of rts. And yes SC is the one game to rule tham all.

CivIV is a game i just dont have time to play (we have our lives you know, and this game is eternall, besides i have the feeling of having played this game in my previous life lol)

EE (Empire Earth 2 if im not mistaken) is the sorriest excuse of a game i've ever bought

but there is no point in continuing this - its up to one's taste of games
i just like HV better, not trying to impose it on anyone, just sharing how i feel about it

[DaemianLucifer]

A very complex and deep gameplay in combination with fresh ideas (burn me alive, but the skill system in HoMM V is f***ing genious)

Yup,its genious,but not that fresh at all.Personally Id go for the initiative system as the single best and most inovative addition.

just tell me a better strategy game than HoMM V (nomatter if it is real-time, turn-based, or civ-clone) from Warcraft up to now and count how many years this makes.

CivIV,from what Ive played.I heard generals and WH40k were great too.EE was excelent,and so was RoN.SF was brilliant,and I heard SFII was great as well.Company of heroes.Id put them all over HV.And Im not pulling SC here,because nothing can compare to that.

[Alamar]

I hear that Gal Civ isn't bad either even though it is "low budget" compared to HoMM.

[DaemianLucifer]

I didnt want to put it there because its very slow paced compared to heroes,and some find that boring.But remember people,just because the game is completelly turn based,it doesnt mean that its boring Besides,gal civ is about to shine when its expansion comes out.

[Demiurg]

And Im not pulling SC here,because nothing can compare to that.

Yep, that's one more classic I'm missing because of it's low resolutions - and WC before 3 as well. Game companies should try to future proof their work as much as possible imo. All game developers should have a clone of John Carmack.

[DaemianLucifer]

Yep, that's one more classic I'm missing because of it's low resolutions - and WC before 3 as well.

Enormous mistake.Even with a wall monitor this one would look astounding with its resolution.The same goes for HIII.