Snow

[Elvin]

Yes Chronicles offered very little.Still the Final Chapter and Clash of the Dragons had very interesting campaigns both story and game-wise.SOD also had very good campaigns and long ones that interweaved.Not much about new features but I liked it and the new maps were a welcome addition.

Edit:
About imbalances I meant mostly towns,heroes and creatures.The imba arties and spells were accessible to anyone and almost always lead to fun situations I just believe H3 had less than others of the series though in time H5 may come off as the most balanced.
*crosses fingers*

[Wildbear]

@blackrazor
I would add that the opposite is true, it's just a terrain, so why not putting it in the first version of the game? Especially if it's removed to be put back later.

And it isn't only about snow, but rough and real swamp as well, along all the variations. The diversity of the game has decreased a lot. A terrain is not only a set of pictures, it has an influence on the gameplay (especially movements) and on the ambiance of the game. If you really think it's only a terrain, they can remove all terrain types and tell you what you're telling us here. Then you look in the editor and see the terrain was ready but removed, and all maps created before the expansion won't have it, and all maps created with that terrain will be available only to those who bought the expansion.

It sure can look minor at first and for itself, but the consequences are disproportionate.

[Blackrazor]

But hidden content is the latest buzz-feature in gaming, right?

Just think of 'snow' as Heroes 5's version of Hot Coffee in GTA:SA or the breast models in Oblivion, except noones created a fan-made patch to show it yet

It's not just the feature.Having played H5 from 1.0 they have many reasons to be upset and anything that shows sloppy/cheap/incomplete/money grubbing implementation is enough to set them off

Fair enough i guess. I just personally think that expecting something based on previous iterations is a fallacy tho - Heroes 4, for example, was less like Heroes 3 than something like Age of Wonders : Shadow Magic was, yet most people werent too upset over the differences (much).

[PhoenixReborn]

Heroes 2 Price of Loyalty does have an map editor and an rmg.

[Wildbear]

Heroes 2 Price of Loyalty does have an map editor and an rmg.

So? It doesn't make the removal of features to put the back later in an expansion more acceptable.

No matter the name of the company doing it, it's really annoying.

I just personally think that expecting something based on previous iterations is a fallacy tho

I could agree if it wasn't:
1- already part of the game (hidden content)
2- not in an expansion.

They did the terrain, then removed it. If it was to improve the gameplay in some way I would understand until that point. But then, they put it back and sell it as a new feature.

There are only two logical solutions: it's good for the gameplay so they make it available from the beginning, or it's bad for the gameplay and they never make it available. It isn't like it was suddenly turning into a good feature because of the content of the addon, it's only to put one more line on the back of the box.

[PhoenixReborn]

Heroes 2 Price of Loyalty does have an map editor and an rmg.

So? It doesn't make the removal of features to put the back later in an expansion more acceptable.

No matter the name of the company doing it, it's really annoying.

I just personally think that expecting something based on previous iterations is a fallacy tho

I could agree if it wasn't:
1- already part of the game (hidden content)
2- not in an expansion.

They did the terrain, then removed it. If it was to improve the gameplay in some way I would understand until that point. But then, they put it back and sell it as a new feature.

There are only two logical solutions: it's good for the gameplay so they make it available from the beginning, or it's bad for the gameplay and they never make it available. It isn't like it was suddenly turning into a good feature because of the content of the addon, it's only to put one more line on the back of the box.

Fine, I was just responding to someone who wasn't sure if there was an RMG before Heroes III. I'm saying there was. There was one in Heroes II (personally I don't like the rmg's in any of them, if you like them fine).

Gameplay, marketing, whatever are you talking about? It's this simple: The Fortress' native terrain is snow. Snow is not the native terrain of Inferno, Academy, Dungeon, Haven, Sylvan, or Necropolis. Therefore it is in the expansion with the fortress town.

It's not as if Ubisoft is the only company ever to charge money for extra content...did you see the Oblivion horse armor? Rubbish and yet people pay for it.

[MistWeaver]

It's not as if Ubisoft is the only company ever to charge money for extra content...did you see the Oblivion horse armor? Rubbish and yet people pay for it.

Bad example. Absence of horse armor in original did not affect game at all. Snow terrain, on other hand, is a "must be" for heroes series.

[Veldrynus]

Don't see where where the problem is? These games are DESIGNED to feel incomplete. Why implementing all ideas in the original release? How about using some of them as an excuse to SELL a few expansions ? This way the same game can be sold twice or even more times!

You sound like that's not common practice.....

3DO did that with H3 (no RMG, lame Chronicles) and H4 (no AI, lame expansions) too. I'm pretty sure NWC had little to say about the matter.

EDIT: OK, they propably weren't designed to lack but instead just hurried, propably HV is such a case too.

Unfortunately, it is common practice. But, should we accept this without any complaints, just because this is the common way for companies to sell their flawed products?
The original versions of H3 and H4 felt like full games in comparison to H5. Sure, the expansion were lame, but that's because the most important things were already implemented in the original release. Therefore buying them doesn't felt like a mandatory update.

[Jolly Joker]

You sound like a bunch of junkies whose favorite dealer has been put out of commission and now have to put up with another one who stretches his stuff differently.
Don't buy it, if it sucks so much. No one is forcing you.

[MistWeaver]

You sound like a bunch of junkies whose favorite dealer has been put out of commission and now have to put up with another one who stretches his stuff differently.
Don't buy it, if it sucks so much. No one is forcing you.

No. We sound like a group of Heroes games customers that are discusing why UBI politics sucks. Cutting original to make addon more attractive is sh*t - like politics. If you dont like it - do not read, no one forcing you.


ps: JJ, I already know that you are ill-mannered. But try to keep "junkies" and similar crap to yourself.

[asandir]

You sound like a bunch of junkies whose favorite dealer has been put out of commission and now have to put up with another one who stretches his stuff differently.
Don't buy it, if it sucks so much. No one is forcing you.

a tad harsh perhaps to put in an association with drug users wouldn't you say? I can understand your frustration that people keep on going about the (perceived and real) issues with the game, but that is their choice. And a fair few people complain so that hopefully things get fixed to their liking, certainly not everyone will be entertained, and I'm sure some of the suggestions are less than meritorius, but some are very worthwhile and it would be in Ubi's interests to at least look at them *cough* caravans *cough*

Your view is as valid as anyone elses, but not moreso JJ

[Jolly Joker]

Now look. I can understand that someone complains about the game.

But in this case someone complains about the SNOW terrain not included in the original game but in the addon...................................................

Now my comment probably wasn't that funny. However. the advice stands:
If you don't like, wait until the super-platinum complete Heroes version is in the garbage bin for a couple of bucks, if you don't like it. If you STILL buy it, but prefer to complain, I mean, come on. What would you call someone who runs to McD's every day and complains after each meal about the poor quality?

[Veldrynus]

Don't bother stefan, he's just doing what he is paid for. His messages should be ignored, just like any other commercial spam.

[MistWeaver]

If you don't like, wait until the super-platinum complete Heroes version is in the garbage bin for a couple of bucks, if you don't like it. If you STILL buy it, but prefer to complain, I mean, come on. What would you call someone who runs to McD's every day and complains after each meal about the poor quality?

And what about Heroes 6 JJ? Or should we just accept that Heroes games will become more and more cut in 1.0 ? Whats next? Heroes-episodes ?

[asandir]

Don't bother stefan, he's just doing what he is paid for. His messages should be ignored, just like any other commercial spam.

Oh I know Veldrynus .... been around long enough for that .... but sometimes I just can't help myself!

don't even think it Mistweaver

[Gaidal Cain]

Don't bother stefan, he's just doing what he is paid for. His messages should be ignored, just like any other commercial spam.

And how do we know that you're not being payed to come here and bash H5? Show some respect for fellow posters, even if it just amounts to ignoring them instead of flaming.

[MistWeaver]

And how do we know that you're not being payed to come here and bash H5?

Well..because in this case - that does not make sense. It does for "Gears of War" but not H5

[Mytical]

Well I do respect JJ. I mean it is easy to follow the crowd, quite a bit harder to be one of few holdouts. Not that I agree with him, but it is something to respect that he sticks to his beliefs. The terrain they did include was nice and beautiful most of the time (even the necro areas) though the deserts were a bit bland. Snow is a nice addition, and I would like to see an autumn addition sometime. If they did have snow in the original and took it out, then they should offer it in a patch, not an expansion. Again just making you pay more money for what they should have included.

[Blackrazor]

It's this simple: The Fortress' native terrain is snow. Snow is not the native terrain of Inferno, Academy, Dungeon, Haven, Sylvan, or Necropolis. Therefore it is in the expansion with the fortress town.

This is probably the best point in the whole thread. The reason snow existed in previous Heroes iterations is because there was a town associated with it. In H5, there was no town associated with snow, so they didnt include it.

So the argument comes down to whether they should have included the dwarf faction in original H5, which is a completely different kettle of fish

[Jolly Joker]

If you don't like, wait until the super-platinum complete Heroes version is in the garbage bin for a couple of bucks, if you don't like it. If you STILL buy it, but prefer to complain, I mean, come on. What would you call someone who runs to McD's every day and complains after each meal about the poor quality?

And what about Heroes 6 JJ? Or should we just accept that Heroes games will become more and more cut in 1.0 ? Whats next? Heroes-episodes ?

The same advice. DON'T BUY THE FREAKING GAME UNTIL IT'S COMPLETE AND IN THE LOW-PRICE BIN. This way they will still sell, what? 600000 copies in the end, but for much less money. This will tell them that the interest is there, but the price too high for what they give or that the game is acceptable only after a year of patching and addons.