A tutorial for homm3(the spoiler of a Chinese map-way home)

[Salamandre]

Thanks, are there more saves? One before the final fight would be great !

[Pacifist]

ok,the author had answered me.
Do you know what he said by google?
http://www.gamerhome.net/bbs/viewthread ... 3D1&page=7

In brief,the first combat,he use some cannon fodders to block the enemy because some special terrain.The second combat,it needs high morale and 'frenzy'/gold bow.This is a harder fight.

Yes the special terrain needs to be used vs the unicorns, I blocked the 2 paths with non-living creatures that could be wasted. I have too much of them now lol.

Coming back to the Way Home map, I killed Qin in 2-1-1 so I can follow again the walkthrough . I lost the 5 genies , think I can save them but will not redo the fight.

Hope there will be not much fights needing a ton of reloads . For example, the fight vs Tim is a "clean" win. Pure strategy, no luck involved considering the fight is vs AI. But I can live with that as there a many new approaches possible now in single player games to give a new life to this old game .

Now that I played till there I think it can be played "almost normally" as a map, obviously not for a record. Some towns we can keep and not "flee" or advance further , depends on how we see it .

Thanks to people like you that share their knowledge!

[benbird]

Thanks, are there more saves? One before the final fight would be great !

It's a pity that the save seems the last save

[benbird]

ok,the author had answered me.
Do you know what he said by google?
http://www.gamerhome.net/bbs/viewthread ... 3D1&page=7

In brief,the first combat,he use some cannon fodders to block the enemy because some special terrain.The second combat,it needs high morale and 'frenzy'/gold bow.This is a harder fight.

Yes the special terrain needs to be used vs the unicorns, I blocked the 2 paths with non-living creatures that could be wasted. I have too much of them now lol.

Coming back to the Way Home map, I killed Qin in 2-1-1 so I can follow again the walkthrough . I lost the 5 genies , think I can save them but will not redo the fight.

Hope there will be not much fights needing a ton of reloads . For example, the fight vs Tim is a "clean" win. Pure strategy, no luck involved considering the fight is vs AI. But I can live with that as there a many new approaches possible now in single player games to give a new life to this old game .

Now that I played till there I think it can be played "almost normally" as a map, obviously not for a record. Some towns we can keep and not "flee" or advance further , depends on how we see it .

Thanks to people like you that share their knowledge!

yes,I dislike a ton of reloads in one combat yet

the map needn't lots of reload if you know the right method well I think

[Pacifist]

Finally redid the Qin fight, lost one master genie only. I have one day delay from your walkthrough now since you didn't have to recapture Eyes of Sky and took the boat with Gabriel one day earlier.

I forgot I had to summon a boat so I wasted more spell points to resurrect the 6 cyclop kings and only 12 pts left to beat the Ancien Behemoths. One slow was not enough and with 2 slows it was very easy but not mana for summon boat . So I decided to townportal back to Eyes of Sky, drink in the well nearby, come back BUT on Eyes of Sky I bought an ammocart! . So town portal back to The Darkstone, same fight and there the Behemoths didn't play the same! All that because I have an ammocart that takes place and puts blockers ahead . Well I have enough mana now but just for the info, sometimes an ammocart is bad idea . Now I have just enough movement to summon boat and board, not possible to visit garden of revelation this day...

[benbird]

Finally redid the Qin fight, lost one master genie only. I have one day delay from your walkthrough now since you didn't have to recapture Eyes of Sky and took the boat with Gabriel one day earlier.

I forgot I had to summon a boat so I wasted more spell points to resurrect the 6 cyclop kings and only 12 pts left to beat the Ancien Behemoths. One slow was not enough and with 2 slows it was very easy but not mana for summon boat . So I decided to townportal back to Eyes of Sky, drink in the well nearby, come back BUT on Eyes of Sky I bought an ammocart! . So town portal back to The Darkstone, same fight and there the Behemoths didn't play the same! All that because I have an ammocart that takes place and puts blockers ahead . Well I have enough mana now but just for the info, sometimes an ammocart is bad idea . Now I have just enough movement to summon boat and board, not possible to visit garden of revelation this day...

It seems you have defeated Crixalis

Congratulation!

[Pacifist]

The fight vs Marcia is very unlucky. She seems to always open a hole or door and when not, she makes 4 or heals in the fight (I have at least the chance she didn't split the enchanters). But maybe because I don't have the golden bow because no air shield because didn't capture Fortress town yet. The golden bow doesn't add much though because the enchanters come close anyway. If I can win this fight I can maybe use the tavern to make some free trips to Gabriel once he has taken the boots of speed and learn hypnotize also.

Managed to beat her but lost 4 archangels and 32 enchanters. Just too many cure the enchanters cast in so long time. I wonder in how much time you did it .

I was thinking maybe use more titans and sacrifice all master gremlins after the titans cannot shoot anymore but again a simple cure ruins everything. So I'm stuck with 3 titans, 4 * 32 enchanters, 1 archmagi and 4 archangels. The 4 archangels can resurrect once to prevent a possible cure but that's all. I have 5 or 6 cures in the whole fight.


edit: finally made it . Still have the archmage but it's not a problem because there are some imps near Gabriel and he will drink oasis 3 times, so the movement lost by Rick is compensated by Gabriel who will just go backwards a step

[benbird]

The fight vs Marcia is very unlucky. She seems to always open a hole or door and when not, she makes 4 or heals in the fight (I have at least the chance she didn't split the enchanters). But maybe because I don't have the golden bow because no air shield because didn't capture Fortress town yet. The golden bow doesn't add much though because the enchanters come close anyway. If I can win this fight I can maybe use the tavern to make some free trips to Gabriel once he has taken the boots of speed and learn hypnotize also.

Managed to beat her but lost 4 archangels and 32 enchanters. Just too many cure the enchanters cast in so long time. I wonder in how much time you did it .

I was thinking maybe use more titans and sacrifice all master gremlins after the titans cannot shoot anymore but again a simple cure ruins everything. So I'm stuck with 3 titans, 4 * 32 enchanters, 1 archmagi and 4 archangels. The 4 archangels can resurrect once to prevent a possible cure but that's all. I have 5 or 6 cures in the whole fight.

It's actually unlucky
I defeated Marcia just 1 time
Maybe you can change your troops position to avoid Marcia's 'cure' magic or opening the door.
A tip:if you found AI always did the same way in one combat,you need to exit the game and reload again,because AI maybe always repeat one behaviour in calculating its action for H3 pseudo-random algorithm.
When you enter the game again,then exchange your troops' position or unwear some equipment,this maybe change AI's action.
Whatever her enchanters are splited or not,it doesn't affect the result.

[benbird]

edit: finally made it . Still have the archmage but it's not a problem because there are some imps near Gabriel and he will drink oasis 3 times, so the movement lost by Rick is compensated by Gabriel who will just go backwards a step

yes,this is your lucky
drinks oasis 3 times in one turn

[Pacifist]

Hehe, yes one lucky for one unlucky . I did as you say, reload after exit, change troop, etc but still very high chance the door is open or a wall is destroyed. And when I have found a good configuration I must pray for the 60 next rounds there are 20 possibilities the enchanters cast cure . Finally, I finished with exactly 0 mana .

Now, with the help of the tavern, I am able to flag 2 gold mines, visit stat boosters, kill the titans, visiting shrine of hypnotize and brown tent (I had not enough movement previously) all in one day .

Next day Rick break route to the utopias (400 faeries) while Lim goes for the efreets. Lim is one day behind walkthrough but I will take it back for the blind scroll . The swan pond will not make me wait one more day . With the money from utopias


edit: Rick visited only one utopia and a library of enlightment because I needed him on styx to help visit the 2 swan lakes in one day for blind spell.

But I have a big mystery near the tavern! it's cursed ground but that doesn't slow movement as far as I know and above is snow. I give Rick a genie or a gremlin but he still loses movement points at 150% which correspond well to snow. I tried all types or creatures even nomades but always same. Weird

The 2 other heroes having pathfinding expert have no problem with these 3 tiles of course whatever units they have. I'm puzzled

[overall]

we like bens thread laters...

[Pacifist]

Well, I found the originof the problem but still don't understand why it's like that. certainly never saw that info anywhere.

Cursed ground is supposed to not give movement penalty but cursed ground on difficult terrain seems to cancel the immunity of native units on a non-pathfinding hero. Maybe it's new with heroes complete? I could not test on pure SoD or RoE.

[Pacifist]

I will stop here because there seems to be a problem with AI in WoG interface (I just did that to have the info bar of movement points and dwelling hint text). But AI stays doing nothing, nobody attacked me yet, I should have put an ERM command that sets AI radius to 32000 so they are more agressive but I didn't know that at the moment .

So my last save, I have well progressed I think, differently from walkthrough but not had the challenge of having to deal with AI heroes so I will restart and playing differently from beginning but this times with Heroes complete interface to be sure .

http://www.speedyshare.com/files/246282 ... _2-3-1.GM1

[benbird]

But I have a big mystery near the tavern! it's cursed ground but that doesn't slow movement as far as I know and above is snow. I give Rick a genie or a gremlin but he still loses movement points at 150% which correspond well to snow. I tried all types or creatures even nomades but always same. Weird

It's very strange

I will try it if I have time.

[benbird]

we like bens thread laters...

Thank you

[benbird]

Well, I found the originof the problem but still don't understand why it's like that. certainly never saw that info anywhere.

Cursed ground is supposed to not give movement penalty but cursed ground on difficult terrain seems to cancel the immunity of native units on a non-pathfinding hero. Maybe it's new with heroes complete? I could not test on pure SoD or RoE.

Really??

I will ask some expert of h3

[benbird]

I will stop here because there seems to be a problem with AI in WoG interface (I just did that to have the info bar of movement points and dwelling hint text). But AI stays doing nothing, nobody attacked me yet, I should have put an ERM command that sets AI radius to 32000 so they are more agressive but I didn't know that at the moment .

So my last save, I have well progressed I think, differently from walkthrough but not had the challenge of having to deal with AI heroes so I will restart and playing differently from beginning but this times with Heroes complete interface to be sure .

http://www.speedyshare.com/files/246282 ... _2-3-1.GM1

I don't know WOG,but if AI visit the tent,why don't they open some guard??
It is hardly conceivable

[benbird]

Well, I found the originof the problem but still don't understand why it's like that. certainly never saw that info anywhere.

Cursed ground is supposed to not give movement penalty but cursed ground on difficult terrain seems to cancel the immunity of native units on a non-pathfinding hero. Maybe it's new with heroes complete? I could not test on pure SoD or RoE.

I have tested your hypothesis.
But I never found your condition.
Two heroes run the same distance in cursed ground or not.

[benbird]

I will stop here because there seems to be a problem with AI in WoG interface (I just did that to have the info bar of movement points and dwelling hint text). But AI stays doing nothing, nobody attacked me yet, I should have put an ERM command that sets AI radius to 32000 so they are more agressive but I didn't know that at the moment .

So my last save, I have well progressed I think, differently from walkthrough but not had the challenge of having to deal with AI heroes so I will restart and playing differently from beginning but this times with Heroes complete interface to be sure .

http://www.speedyshare.com/files/246282 ... _2-3-1.GM1

I downloaded your save,and play it in SOD.

The enemy will open the guard,and walk outside.

So it can be continued in SOD

[Pacifist]

Yes I know I can continue in SoD but it's not the same as the ennemy let me in peace too long and so the challenge is less interesting:). Also the version seems to not be recognized even when I save the game again in H3 complete. I'm afraid it cab lead to future problems maybe?

Well, I restarted in SoD and played to the point I defeated the wyvern king but Gabriel still no way to have earth and water without losing too many days in the beginning for visiting the needed hut . This time I didn't lose a single unit until Ben Bird (you ) where I lost 5 pikeman and a gargoyle . I lost 5 gargoyles also vs Tim (instead of master genies). So I was very happy but before the dread knights I realised Gabriel will never level-up with the right skills and he needs earth badly. So it seems I have to restart again .

For the movement on cursed ground, in my save or any of your saves, just test the movement for Rick (he has no pathfinding) in the 3 tiles between the swan pond and the tavern near Quiet Bay. You will see that he uses the same movement with 1 pikeman or with 1 master genie. Of course he must have same speed at the beginning of the 2 tests .

But I investigated further and it applies to all terrain penalties (snow, rough and swamp) but since there are no native creatures for desert the nomad still helps well in desert with or without cursed ground in it.


I made a little map where you can see all the possibilities. Just take the same unit and move any of the difficult terrains with or without cursed ground. The use of a native creature doesn't help to cancel the movement penalty of Orrin since he doesn't have pathfinding. The cursed ground is a cursed thing! .


the map :

http://www.speedyshare.com/files/24640048/test_path.h3m