Elemental Mod for MM7 -- v4.0 open beta

[Tomsod]

Stealing dagger from lady carmine was impossible, I got caught every time I tried (even with cheating to get thievery GM 20, being invisibile on easy it failed).

You can't steal from monsters with the hostile bit set (different from a red dot status). Normally this bit is only set after you attack the monster once, but Carmine starts with it now. Can't be an assassin without assassinating, no? But this still can be cheesed by casting Berserk on her.

My party required lots of healing for Breeding zone, as behemoths were to much even at easy .
This may atleast be partially caused by having only expert regeneration (cleric & druid are only classes that can have body magic M at first promotion and neither is in my party) .
This reveals a big disadvantage for early/midgame of using paladin/ranger as a cleric replacement.

Well, another rank of regen only adds 12 HP/hour, and would that really change things? I barely made it through on hard, had to use a DI scroll, but it is doable, which is good enough for me.

After allying D/ finishing breeding zone an entry was added to journal and the castle was upgraded .
This feels to early for probatory access phase, maybe delay entry & castle upgrade until after choice is final ?

I definitely gotta do something about journal at least, some light/dark entries are almost duplicates which is apparent now that you can get both. And yeah, you can get Magnus to build you the second floor, then ally with dark and have it retroactively be Archibald instead. It's a mess right now.

When I goto H messenger of judge death appears. This hasn't blocked the probatory access and I did get an offer from magnus to switch sides.
No Idea if selecting an arbiter is still necessary and whether that will allow switching sides a 2nd time .

After choosing a path the new way, picking the judge becomes a formality with only one candidate, so no. I admit it's kind of redundant, but maybe I'll tweak it a bit later.

[raekuul]

So I finished with the PACS Light Path team; I'm not sure I want to go back and play through on Dark Path since the only real difference is Clanker's Lab (as I clear Thunderfist Mountain anyway preparatory to any raids on Eofol). PACS team finished at about level 40 (Paladin was human so they finished a couple levels ahead of everyone else). I think I'll stick with Sniper and Lich for any future runs involving those two (Altar of Wishes is harder than Titan's at low difficulty, but also a lot more engaging even with my previous complaints about it - even at low difficulty Titan's just boils down to "reload the map until you get small clusters, then just run to the chest").

I'm going to put this aside for a bit to cool down; I will eventually give PACS another pass on higher difficulty (it has a pretty rough early game but the end game is actually pretty easy), but I think my next party is going to be a second attempt at TMRD, with all the logistical headaches that entails (as I'll necessarily need to split at least 224 of my Druid's skill points across magic skills, enough to get GM for two and Master for two more) I need to take a closer look at the skill splits.

[ryugasen]

I've run into an issue where Tolberti won't give me the mission to kill Robert. I've allied with the Dark asap, refused magnus, and completed all other quests. I don't know how to proceed. When speaking to Tolberti, the quest is there but when I click on it he just doesn't talk.

If it matters, all promotion teachers still ask me for a token before giving me the quest. That's why I've only completed 6 of the 9 promotions. This is happening despite me taking judge sleen to replace the dead one

[Tomsod]

I've run into an issue where Tolberti won't give me the mission to kill Robert. I've allied with the Dark asap, refused magnus, and completed all other quests. I don't know how to proceed. When speaking to Tolberti, the quest is there but when I click on it he just doesn't talk.

Good catch! Apparently I accidentally deleted some lines of the script that governs that quest, so it doesn't work now. Here's a quick fix that you can unpack into the game directory for it to work correctly. It'll also be fixed in the next version, and you'll probably need to delete the DataFiles directory (added by the fix) when upgrading to v4.0.4 later.

[Lone_Wolf]

I now have a GM alchemist and can create black potions. My hunter got gardeners gloves from arcomage treasure , so should increase the chance to get high level reagents .

I doubt that will be enough, so where to find power 50 ingredients / power 75 catalysts ?

Spoiler

Yellow : Vial of devil ichor is gotten by killing devils
Blue : Toadstools can be found in TF, and I'm not that far from reaching the 2 year respawn time. Using that & hourglasses should give a good amount of toadstools & mercury.

Red : dragon eye - no idea where to find them. possibly killing dragons in LoG will give some of them. Unfortunately my party is not up to eofol tunnels yet and needs the boost from black potions.

Grey : Philosopher's stone - In vanilla I only remember getting one of them , possibly in obelisk treasure

Stacking bonuses & selecting certain NPCs may be enough to use mercury to get highish power black potions, but requires lots of preparation .

[Tomsod]

You only really need as much power as possible (read: philosopher stones) for pure stat potions, otherwise it's generally sufficient to just make two or more weaker potions instead. As for where to find the stones (apart from the gloves and random level 6 loot), there are some in obelisk treasure, in Clanker's lab, in Eeofol, and in vanilla there was one in a chest in Tularean, but I removed that. Also, you can get a bunch of them in Lincoln, but that's more of a completion bonus.

And there's really nothing wrong with having a dedicated brewing session using proper hirelings and other boosters; alchemy is all about preparation! There's even the quick brew feature if you're lazy.

[Lone_Wolf]

Understood, will plan to do that.

I have looked into why my party has so much trouble with behemoths and realised they used rock blast .
Trolls also use rock blast, and they are also hard for my party .

aura of conflict / of taunting / of the jester don't help against rock blast as it is hits the entire party.

Items of shielding and Shield spell don't seem to do much against decreasing rock blast damage.
The half physical damage of plate master does make a difference though.

Is the shield spell supposed to have an effect on the physical damage from spells like rock blast ?

[raekuul]

There's even the quick brew feature if you're lazy.

wait what

[Tomsod]

Is the shield spell supposed to have an effect on the physical damage from spells like rock blast ?

No, it only protects from non-spell missiles such as arrows, breath attacks, or raw magic blasts. (This is also how half missile damage worked in vanilla, I only fixed the Shield spell itself which was broken, and reduced stacking of several shielding effects.) Physical spell damage is unfortunately only reduced by some armor skills and by identifying monster's spells.

I have also noticed that trolls and behemoths are brutal; maybe I should reduce the power with which they cast that spell.

There's even the quick brew feature if you're lazy.

wait what

Added back in v2.0:

Last, but not least, I've added an ability to brew any potion in a single
click, provided you know the relevant recipes, have the reagents and enough
bottles, and posess the necessary Alchemy skill! It's as simple as
Ctrl-clicking on an existing potion, or its recipe. The game will then
attempt to brew another potion of the same type, first from other potions, or
otherwise from base reagents. It works exactly like brewing it manually, and
you will be given a descriptive message if the process fails. This
functionality is mostly intended to help streamline batch-brewing potions.
I'm quite proud of this one.

I swear to baby Jesus, one of these days I'm gonna write a readable manual with all the important features sorted by topic, and then I won't be the only person who knows how to play my mod properly.

[Lone_Wolf]

and then I won't be the only person who knows how to play my mod properly.

I've read the entire changelog several times and looked into dozens of your commits to get a better understanding, but am not even close to your level of knowledge of this mod.

Thank you for a great job with this mod and sharing your knowledge on lots of MM issues.

by identifying monster's spells.

My impression is that ID Monster works on a per monster basis, so you'd have to ID all attackers to benefit from it .

Maybe ID monster could work on monster type for a limited time instead ?
example:
When fighting a troll mob you ID one swamp troll, one river troll and one mountain troll.
for a short time (5 minutes per skill level ?) all instances of those 3 types stay identified and give the bonuses associated with id'ing a monster.

[raekuul]

Not quite done yet but I think you might find this analysis interesting/useful for route balancing (I need to import some of the "exclude peasants" tech from the monster shuffler):

Maps sorted by average monster level

Index	File Name	Name                    	Lock	Trap	Tres	Average Monster Level
0	Out01.Odm	Emerald Island          	0	1	0	2.9
19	d06.blv  	The Temple of the Moon  	0	1	0	3.9
45	d22.blv  	The Hall under the Hill 	6	3	1	4.5
52	mdk01.blv	Barrow VII              	5	3	1	4.7
57	mdt01.blv	Barrow IX               	5	3	1	4.75
66	mdr05.blv	Barrow XV               	5	3	1	5
60	mdt04.blv	Barrow VIII             	5	3	1	5.07
56	mdk05.blv	Barrow III              	5	3	1	5.64
1	Out02.Odm	Harmondale              	2	1	0	5.8
61	mdt05.blv	Barrow XIII             	5	3	1	6.25
62	mdr01.blv	Barrow X                	5	3	1	6.25
64	mdr03.blv	Barrow V                	5	3	1	6.65
58	mdt02.blv	Barrow VI               	5	3	1	6.71
65	mdr04.blv	Barrow XI               	5	3	1	6.78
3	Out04.odm	The Tularean Forest     	4	2	1	6.9
53	mdk02.blv	Barrow IV               	5	3	1	7.07
63	mdr02.blv	Barrow XII              	5	3	1	7.4
22	d01.blv  	The Erathian Sewers     	5	2	1	7.5
55	mdk04.blv	Barrow XIV              	5	3	1	7.67
20	d29.blv  	Castle Harmondale       	1	1	0	7.8
54	mdk03.blv	Barrow II               	5	3	1	7.98
21	d21.blv  	White Cliff Cave        	2	1	0	9.42
10	Out11.odm	The Barrow Downs        	5	3	2	9.61
59	mdt03.blv	Barrow I                	5	3	1	9.83
17	mdt14.blv	The Bandit Caves        	6	3	1	10.13
8	Out09.odm	Evenmorn Island         	8	4	2	10.54
38	d24.blv  	Stone City              	6	3	1	10.65
41	d17.blv  	The Tidewater Caverns   	9	4	2	11.09
2	Out03.odm	Erathia                 	4	2	1	11.86
4	Out05.odm	Deyja                   	6	3	2	12.38
67	d13.blv  	Zokarr's Tomb           	5	3	2	12.38
48	d32.blv  	Castle Navan            	6	3	2	12.73
23	d31.blv  	Fort Riverstride        	4	3	1	13.47
18	d37.blv  	The Haunted Mansion     	8	4	2	13.75
35	t03.blv  	Grand Temple of the Sun 	9	4	3	15.09
24	d08.blv  	The Tularean Caves      	4	3	1	15.85
26	t04.blv  	The Hall of the Pit     	9	4	2	16.57
12	Out13.odm	Tatalia                 	8	4	2	17.1
34	d19.blv  	Grand Temple of the Moon	9	4	3	17.2
68	d35.blv  	Nighon Tunnels          	8	4	2	18.07
5	Out06.odm	The Bracada Desert      	6	3	2	18.37
42	d16.blv  	The Wine Cellar         	13	7	3	18.37
13	Out14.odm	Avlee                   	8	4	2	19.05
6	d25.blv  	Celeste                 	20	7	3	22.41
44	d04.blv  	The Temple of Baa       	11	5	3	22.64
33	t02.blv  	Temple of the Dark      	15	8	5	23.24
27	d15.blv  	Watchtower 6            	11	6	3	23.58
31	t01.blv  	Temple of the Light     	15	8	5	23.72
16	d18.blv  	Lord Markham's Manor    	10	5	2	24.09
29	d34.blv  	The Red Dwarf Mines     	5	2	1	24.29
7	d26.blv  	The Pit                 	20	7	3	24.64
47	d33.blv  	Castle Gryphonheart     	6	3	2	26.5
76	genie.blv	Altar of Wishes         	12	6	4	27.39
51	d28.blv  	The Dragon's Lair       	5	3	1	27.5
25	d12.blv  	Clanker's Laboratory    	14	7	4	29.57
32	d10.blv  	The Breeding Zone       	10	5	1	30.25
30	d11.blv  	The Walls of Mist       	10	5	1	30.59
28	d14.blv  	The School of Sorcery   	10	5	2	30.64
50	d03.blv  	Castle Gloaming         	12	6	4	31.5
40	d20.blv  	The Mercenary Guild     	11	5	4	33.38
9	Out10.odm	Mount Nighon            	10	5	3	34.11
72	mdt11.blv	The Hidden Tomb         	12	6	4	35.33
49	d30.blv  	Castle Lambent          	12	6	4	38.85
36	d07.blv  	Thunderfist Mountain    	10	5	4	41.05
69	d36.blv  	Tunnels to Eeofol       	10	5	5	46.61
39	d27.blv  	Colony Zod              	20	10	5	52.28
37	d02.blv  	The Maze                	12	6	5	52.79
11	Out12.odm	The Land of the Giants  	20	9	6	64.29
43	d09.blv  	The Titans' Stronghold  	16	8	5	77.34
74	mdt15.blv	The Small House         	20	10	6	80
15	mdt12.blv	The Dragon Caves        	20	10	6	90
71	mdt09.blv	Wromthrax's Cave        	10	5	3	90
73	nwc.blv  	The Strange Temple      	12	6	4	N/A
75	d05.blv  	The Arena               	1	1	1	N/A
14	Out15.odm	Shoals                  	1	1		
46	d23.blv  	The Lincoln             	20	10	6	
70	mdt10.blv	William Setag's Tower   	8	4	2	

[Lone_Wolf]

Definitely interesting, but you may want to use another metric then average level.

Barrow Downs & Evenmorn can have obsidian gargoyles which are much harder to kill then the lesser gargoyles and other monsterts you encounter there.

Also the presence of pedestals / wells with temp buffs can matter a lot.
The DoG & heroism pedestals on erathia map make most of that map much easier then tidewater caverns .

Lay-out does matter and makes red dwarf mines, markham's manor and castle gryphonheart a lot easier then the pit & celeste where you have to face much bigger mobs .

[raekuul]

Yeah; it's a better metric in MM6 since there were a lot fewer cases of "okay this section of the map doesn't include monster group 3 at all" (to my memory only Blackshire and Kriegspire got that treatment). It's more helpful to me specifically due to the monster shuffler I'm working on, where you will get medusae on the top floor of the red dwarf mines, or wyverns in downtown AvLee - it turns out shuffling monster locations on map load tends to make average monster level a lot more relevant.

On higher difficulty settings you're a lot more likely to have to fight your way through an entire map anyway; and even though the Red Dwarf Mines are segregated normally, if you intend on completing the Warrior Mage promotion that segregation doesn't mean a whole lot.

re barrow downs and evenmorn - I'm using a full suite of spectral weapons anyway (thank you Paramount Spirit Guild for being easily accessible) so the only real danger from obsidian gargoyles is paralysis.

[Tomsod]

I've read the entire changelog several times and looked into dozens of your commits to get a better understanding, but am not even close to your level of knowledge of this mod.

Thank you for a great job with this mod and sharing your knowledge on lots of MM issues.

You're very welcome! But see, this is partly because the changelog glosses over some things, especially important vanilla mechanics (as they're not changed). I would have more reason to mention those in the manual. The aforementioned shielding effects are a good example, as almost everyone gets them wrong (the spell being nonfunctional - and Grayface refusing to fix it - does not help reduce the confusion).

Maybe ID monster could work on monster type for a limited time instead ?
example:
When fighting a troll mob you ID one swamp troll, one river troll and one mountain troll.
for a short time (5 minutes per skill level ?) all instances of those 3 types stay identified and give the bonuses associated with id'ing a monster.

This makes sense as long as every monster of a type is identical, which is currently true except for certain uniques. But I sort of want to make some monster stats variable, and if I do, there will actually be a point in clicking on each enemy separately (besides the debuffs). Anyway, it's not that hard to wave the cursor over every enemy once - even in the turn-based mode, characters can be freely switched between via number keys while the RMB is held.

On the map balance, I generally assume that NWC knew what they were doing and just try not to ruin that. Incidentally, another playtester sent me a whole bunch of game statistics last month, and I still haven't braved any of them. There oughta be some good insights in there, but I suppose they're not going anywhere!

re barrow downs and evenmorn - I'm using a full suite of spectral weapons anyway (thank you Paramount Spirit Guild for being easily accessible) so the only real danger from obsidian gargoyles is paralysis.

Clever! I haven't thought of that myself. But this also means that magic embers become less useful once the party reaches Nighon; I guess it's acceptable since campfires are all in the early game.

[raekuul]

re barrow downs and evenmorn - I'm using a full suite of spectral weapons anyway (thank you Paramount Spirit Guild for being easily accessible) so the only real danger from obsidian gargoyles is paralysis.

Clever! I haven't thought of that myself. But this also means that magic embers become less useful once the party reaches Nighon; I guess it's acceptable since campfires are all in the early game.

I think I've gotten magic embers from a campfire maybe twice? And they were both on my PACS team where the 'of Infernos' enchantment was less helpful. Still helps that they can be sold to Belknap though, since money is money (especially in the early game when you can't just go kill hydras for money). But the problem really is just that 'Spectral' is a better enchantment than 'of Infernos' overall, since Spectral affects the weapon's entire damage range while of Infernos just adds an extra 3d6 to the end - unless the weapon already came with of Infernos (or it's a bow/crossbow used by a class that can reach M bow but not GM bow) then Spectral is a better investment, as it scales better even in the early game. Unless I'm misunderstanding how 'of Infernos' interacts with Heroism and Critical chance.

(and in any case 'of Infernos' doesn't even help against half of the late game monsters anyway - you may want to look at how prevalent Fire Immunity is as monster levels increase - whereas there is no monster that is completely immune to both Physical and Magic)

[Lone_Wolf]

But this also means that magic embers become less useful once the party reaches Nighon

Nighon has the paramount fire guild , the paramount spirit guild is in Erathia . Maybe increase price of guild items if party doesn't have rank equal or above guild level ?

[raekuul]

yeah the four elemental paramount guilds are a lot harder to reach than the paramount self guilds.
Fire: Nighon (have to get to Nighon, there's no real walkable path, and is within range of hostiles)
Air: Celeste (not accessible at all before Trumpet)
Water: Evenmorn Island (requires either Priest quest or membership in Thieves' Guild, nominally requires expert Alchemy or expert Water)
Earth: The Pit (not accessible at all before Trumpet)

Spirit: Erathia (literally just there)
Mind: Nighon (requires Jump, Fly, or TK)
Body: AvLee (literally just there)

Then again the scrolls for spells that are most important to cast at GM level (Preservation, Immutability, and Elixir of Life) are easily accessible so Your Mileage May Vary.

Balance-wise the Spirit guild is the one that skews the early game, between Spectral Weapon, Bless, Heroism, and the shift in SP economy - it doesn't matter that I can't replenish SP at any temple if I don't need four characters' worth of SP to kill oozes/ghosts/wraiths/gargoyles.

Because Spectral Weapon allows me to use the weapon's full damage range, maybe change the GM perk for the Spectral Weapon spell away from "Permanent"? That way I would at least have to maintain Spectral Weapon to some extent (crafting 'Spectral' or 'of the Wraith' at a weaponsmith would still create this situation but they require actually spending higher tier ores, so they're self-balancing in that respect - especially for a player like me who is normally trying to beat the game before regions can reset) while also encouraging using Spectral Weapon on more than just "generic" weapons (as cool as a permanently Spectral Zokarr's Axe would be)

And also have the Cavalier promotion guy suggest paying a visit to the temple or the Spirit guild before setting out for the Haunted Mansion, as otherwise a party composed solely of Knights has no way of dealing with their own promotion quest - all the courage in the world means nothing when you can't do anything with it, and it's not guaranteed that a player will have spoken to Taren Withern at Wel'nin Cathedral first (to find out about the new phys immunity for ghosts and ghost-like objects). He doesn't have to hand the player any resources, just point them in the right direction.