Best Town in Heroes of Might and Magic 5 (HOMM5)

[PlanesWalker]

Hey Guys,

I wanted to hear opinions on how the towns are ranked from best to worst. Please include a reason for which town type you think is the best and why. I know that maps and player skill would certainly come into play, but lets pretend for the sake of argument that everything is equal. Below is what I would say my experience has been with the individual towns.

My ranking for best to worst would be:

1. Sylvan (Strong Units every tier, good racial ability)
2. Dungeon (Strong Units every tier, good magic damage)
3. Inferno (Weaker units, but GATING can win battles)
4. Haven (Very good units every tier, Training, fairly cheap)
5. Stronghold (Very good units every tier, bloodlust makes units awesome, quick leveling)
6. Fortress (Good units most tiers but defense oriented, runes are good, castle defense is unmatched)
7. Necropolis (Weak units and race skill doesn't help in combat until its over)
8. Academy (Units average and expensive, racial skill is bla)

What do you think?

[wimfrits]

If the game progresses beyond the point where resources are tight, fortress steamrolls over any faction. Their faction ability is hugely imbalanced. Other than that, I think having the means for early expansion is crucial

1. Fortress (imbalanced faction ability)
2. Haven (good tier-2, paladins are overpowered)
3/4/5. Dungeon/Sylvan/Inferno (stalker/fury, sprite, Deleb)
6. Stronghold (strong units but slow start)
7. Academy (slow start)
8. Necropolis (weak lineup)

[Mirez]

I agree with wimfrits, I don't think necropolis is that weak though.

[parcaleste]

After the tweak (a.k.a. uber-nerf) of the Necromancy ability, it's even worse.

I find Stronghold to be really crippled late game against huge stacks - they don't have something like Regeneration, which most of the time is vital after certain point.

[wimfrits]

Not as smooth as with other factions but bloodrage, cyclops and edible goblins work most of the time

[parcaleste]

Yeah, try big stack of Dragons.

[wimfrits]

Last time I couldn't win without loss and had to sacrifice some other units to preserve my cyclops. But that was the only time dragons were a problem

[markkur]

Well, as you said the map matters but I had to agree and pick Fortress. I don't know what the old A.I. was like but when playing with Q's "J" A.I. (new version to be out soon) Fortress rules in long games. I think it's the Runes and Magic combo that becomes hard to overcome. Wonder what the faction would have been like with Runes only?

Funny, regardless, I still favor playing as the boney-dudes, it's too much fun harvesting large armies

[Shurikas]

i would say fortress because of ability of using runes and magic at the same time

[Yurian Stonebow]

Voted Haven.

Training can be quite devastating when used with skill. It's a bit tricky, though. It can ruin your economy while still not providing the tactical advantage the player was looking for. In addition to training, Haven can field better than averege unit line up all the way to the top and the factions healing/boosting/protecting Light Magic together with Inquisitors works wonders. That's how I see things when playing HoMM5.

After Haven, well...Sylvan and Dungeon would then follow, says me.

-Yurian


P.S

I'm still waiting for Q to release the next version of his AI Mod

[markkur]

Voted Haven. After Haven, well...Sylvan and Dungeon would then follow, says me.

P.S

I'm still waiting for Q to release the next version of his AI Mod

Fortress not even 3rd?, I see you've not had a stack of neutral Thanes use Battle-Rage effectively. In one strike I lost 3/4 of a decent army.<L> I was mad as hell crying BUG! Rediculous!! (not knowing all of the Runes)

PS About the next release, yuppers, there are lots of us looking towards his full blown A.I. Considering the current version under all of Q's stated reservation about it, it still manages to out-build me at times; so his next release will be epic for strategy gamers and probably terrifying for weanies.

[Auere]

I have been playing games of heroes 5 with my friend, mailing back and forth the game file. When our main heroes meet, we meet up at his or my place to clash our armies, and see who comes out on top. We are playing with the AI enhancements on the hardest setting and on really big maps.

As you all know different factions excell in different periods of the game. That is also our experience. So some factions are at their best in smaller and shorter games, while some are more fit for combat in month 3+. Therefore it all depends on the size of game you are playing, and the strength of the borderguards.

I suppose it could make sense to give each faction a score from 1-5 (5=best) on each three periods of the game and add it up:

Race: Month 1 / Month 2 / Month 3+ / total score

Haven: 4 / 4 / 4 = 12
Stronghold: 4 / 5 / 3 = 12
Sylvan: 2 / 4 / 4 = 10
Necropolis: 3 / 1 / 4 = 8
Academy: 4 / 2 / 5 = 11
Dungeon: 3 / 5 / 2 = 9
Inferno: 1 / 2 / 4 = 7
Fortress: 3 / 4 / 5 = 12


So, overall my vote stands between Haven, Stronghold and Fortress. If forced to choose I would go with Haven - those guys have a kind skill tree (can get both retribution and empathy for one!) and very solid creatures.

[Mirez]

A 4 for stronghold's endgame seems rather exaggerated. They can't do anything against dark magic. (Nothing big anyway)

Also I'm curiuous what make you think necropolis' midgame is so weak.

[Auere]

I gave stronghold a 3 (mind you) for their endgame. Last time I played stronghold my friend played academy with dark magic. Even though he had frenzy, my troops had attack/defense and +15 attack and defense skills compared to his. Even though my frenzied centaurs killed half my cyclops my chieftains, earth daughters and wyverns killed nearly all his stacks in one or two swings taking very little damage in return. The result was a complete massacre in minutes for me - the only real damage my army took was from my frenzied centaurs.

As for necropolis: Their units are rubbish - practically all of them - and their heroes often have no attack or defense skills and very low attack and defense attributes aswell. They make good early grinders with necromancy, skelletton archers and raise dead, but when they reach mid-game, any encounter with a similar (or 20% smaller) sized force of any other race will just be a complete massacre against you.
On the other hand, in late game EVERY settlement you conquer is basically another +100% growth for all your units. Undead armies can get very, very big in late game - even big enough to make up for their lack of quality and skills.

[Auere]

As we are speaking I have a VERY long game going with my friend. He is playing stronghold and I Sylvan. We are both full on great artifacts and sitting at around level 30 with our main heroes.

His hero has just amazing amounts of attack and defense skills - Like 26/34 - while mine has only 10/25, but I have a bit more troops (joining neutrals) and light magic (he hasnt taken scatter light either).

My build is preparation+elven luck+empathy+light magic+attack

I plan to play defensively with stand your ground and preparation to make up for my lack of skills. If you go hard into close combat early on, you are playing their game. I want to work my light magic before committing to combat with those raging bastards! :-)

[zaio-baio]

Strongest town overall is Sylvan.


However its not that simple. Factions strengh is tied to the map.

On small maps Academy with havez and Necro with kaspar are the best town/hero choices. Both heroes start with warmashines, have high chance to learn summoning magic and their towns ( academy and necro) have summoning spells in the mage guilds. Summoning + warmachines is the best early game creeping combo. On toh maps i was able to reach 2000 firetrap dmg (lvl 1 summon spell) week 1. Its about 10-20 times more dmg than a week 1 army can deal.
Havez also starts with 70-80 gremlins.


On medium maps, read final battle mid game, all towns are fairly well balanced.


On large maps/week 5 + final battle/ best towns are Academy, Fortress, Haven or Sylvan in no particular order. Its entirely map dependent.

Haven rules 1 castle maps with lots of gold/artifacts due to its training ability. 102 paladins/champions in week 8 are almost impossible to beat. Add mass buffs+magic immunity/curses + vampirism, enlightenment, empathy, retribution, defense and its gg.

On maps with 2 or more castles things change as haven cant both train paladins and build another castles at the same time. Its simply too expensive. The top dogs are fortress or sylvan. Fortress will rule if they are as farmed as the elves, however the sylvan heroes ( and particularly ossir) have way easier time creeping than fortress AND they also have easy access to logistics unlike the dwarfs. On pretty much any large/xl map ossir is better than any dwarf.

Academy, while a magic faction, can become pretty much unstoppable in the endgame. What they need, however, are lvl 3 mini arts with 40-50 knowledge on all units and a high lvl wyngaal or a knight hero to lead the wizard troops.



Overall Sylvan is the best, because their army is among the strongest, while their town and units have average cost. Dwarfs need way too much crystals to build their town fast + have crappy creeping, haven needs ridiculous amount of gold for training, and academy needs even more ridiculous amount of knowledge and resources to be able to stand in lategame against those imba elves. Another reason is that the sylvan heroes dont have a rare might skill or rare logistics( unlike hav, aca or dwarfs), so its pretty simple to build a powerhouse ranger. Add 400 battledancers for free ( worth about 50k gold) due to the battle commander abuse and you will get the picture.



Dungeon, orcs and inferno are not mentioned because:

1. Dungeon scales quite poorly into the lategame, while their early game isnt that impressive either.

2. Orcs with haggash are pretty good, but dark magic counters them heavily. They need to pick shatter dark for long games, yet your opponent may go for light instead.

3. Inferno is messed up.

[Lubomir]

Best town in maps with access to more gold mines (like 4+) is obviously heaven. Imagine you have 20 monks/month. Combined with nice light and dark magic, perfect morale bonuses, heaven are champions.

In maps where you have fewer but largers stacs of creatures, suprisingly Necorpolis is the best. I modify maps into monsters being very very hard to defeat, you get to creep only twice or thrice a week, rest you need to wait for new population. In that particular example, Necro dark energy rises every week decent number of creatures.

In large maps overall Sylvan, Heaven, Academy, Stronghold, Foretress rule. Sylvan obviously best initiative, broken arcane archers (my patch tries to do something with it) and favoured enemy list can be curcial if you play vs Heaven who have 3 times more champions as they should've had. Academy has best shooters in game, in large maps you can afford the best artefacts, try to fight Titan with 15 initiative. Don't forget about their ultimate skill that gives them all spells in the game at expert mastery, along with expert sorcery, they can frenzy you, cast divine vengance and so forth. Stronghold excell in brute strenght, but you must master all ability changes while your army gains blood rage levels. With foretress beginning is quite poor, but the stronger is the end, full use of rune magic, armageddon tactics, very good tier 5,6,7, battles with them can take rather long, but they win.

In short maps it's academy, Sylvan, Necropolis. or dungenon. Sylvan and academy have best creeping at the beginning of the game, dungenon's destructive spells are at first and in the following weeks crucial as well. Necropolis profit from rise dead. Dungenon have strong tier 4,5 and 7 units and decent other tiers, but their destructive power fades longer you proceed to the game. However I do not discriminate hit and run tactics, by which you can piss off, frustrate and defeat any enemy with dungenon.

Only Inferno is nowhere on my list. They only have very good tier 4, tier 1, and maybe tier 6 units, they have good initiative, dark magic, but they seriously lack defense. Creeping with them is the most difficult in the game. However I made them much more playable, in my patch by imrpoving some of their upgrades into fire-immune. If you nevertheless choose Inferno, you need to be very lucky if you want to win, but you may on larger maps. If you manage to have pendant of mastery, you can gate devils and Urgash's call makes it instant. ALong with dark magic you will immobilise enemy's shooters and force the enemy to attack you. You will be the one picking targets then. Just need to withstand the fights as Inferno's defenses are very poor for tier 1,3,5 and even 7.

[Variol]

Like most of you, I have played H3 far more than any of the others.
I have played H5 quite a lot, but I can honestly not rank the weakest to strongest factions, or even say which the strongest is. Therefore, I would say they are well balanced.
There are some factions which I like playing more than others though.

At this point, I always modify the map. I select one creature from 1 faction and build 3 or 4 of those dwellings next to the castle. Then, I block other buildings from being built in the castle to balance it. I only do this with level 1-3 creatures. Most of the time, I get my butt kicked, but it makes it a bit more fun.

If I had the skill, I would make a mod which would have a different amount of creatures in each faction.
For example, I would only have goblins, orcs/warriors and chieftains in the Stronghold. There would just be more of them.
I would cut the Fire Dragon from the Fortress and probably 1 or 2 other units as well. It's a bit DnD, but I would give all the dwarf units a % of magic resistance as well.
The Necros would have the Lich as the highest level creature. Why the heck is it a "large: unit anyway??? It's an undead human. I would get rid of the zombies as well. I have no clue how the make use of these slow pokes.

That kind of thing. I feel it's time for a radical change to the series.

[zaio-baio]

Best town in maps with access to more gold mines (like 4+) is obviously heaven. Imagine you have 20 monks/month. Combined with nice light and dark magic, perfect morale bonuses, heaven are champions.

2 gold mines are enough, even with 1 you can train enough to have the upper hand over most factions, but you need time. Week 6+ is already pretty good for them.
20 monks per month is kinda low, i train 80/month if i want to focus on monks. Once amassed they are pretty good, but only with the unicorn horn bow artefact( provides no range penalty). Otherwise its better to train paladins ( up to 52/month), because those monks deal too low dmg on full screen shots. Once i tested it, and 1 crossbow under lvl 29 dougal's command dealt more dmg on average than 1 zealot. You normally get 24 crossbows a week vs only 6 zealots. Even if you train 20 zealots a week the zealot stack will deal less dmg then the crossbow stack ( on max range). Note that most maps do have extra 1-2 tier 2 dwellings ( double growth of crossbows, actually a bit more, you get 50 instead of 48 due to the +1 unit in town bonus from each external dwelling).

In maps where you have fewer but largers stacs of creatures, suprisingly Necorpolis is the best. I modify maps into monsters being very very hard to defeat, you get to creep only twice or thrice a week, rest you need to wait for new population. In that particular example, Necro dark energy rises every week decent number of creatures.

Even if they use all their dark energy every week they will still lose. Storm wind in 3.1 hurts vamps, dragons and ghosts, also necros cant use morale, empathy or retribution + they have very low attack. Its better to attack earlier, unless you can put the skeleton transformer to a good use.

Heaven who have 3 times more champions as they should've had. Academy has best shooters in game, in large maps you can afford the best artefacts, try to fight Titan with 15 initiative. Don't forget about their ultimate skill that gives them all spells in the game at expert mastery, along with expert sorcery, they can frenzy you, cast divine vengance and so forth.

Haven can boost the pallie stack up to 425% ( 6 monks to 6 cavaliers + 7 footmens to 7 monks to 7 cavaliers trained per week). 13 cavaliers trained + 4 cavaliers from the town = 17 cavaliers per week. 17:4 = 4,25.

Academy's ultimate skill, while not bad, requires terrible skills for lategame. Besides it doesnt give you the mass spells and its the mass spells that you need. Better get the spells from arcane libraries or via arcane intuition from creeps. Or build neutral towns. The rich multiplayer maps normally give you the means to obtain all spells that you need by week 5-6.

With foretress beginning is quite poor, but the stronger is the end, full use of rune magic, armageddon tactics, very good tier 5,6,7, battles with them can take rather long, but they win.

Agree about fortess, but if you go for arma you will most likely loose, because all strong players are expecting arma tactics. In 3.1 its very easy for most factions to get the resist fire perk ( not only 1/2 the fire dmg, but also makes your army immune to the -50% def reduction of master of fire). Shield of crystal + dwarven smithly hammer also provide fire protection and any 2 pieces of the dwarven set give 40% magic dmg reduction against all spells (including the divine vengeance spell). So most of the time you try to get warmashines with fortress ( for easy early game), then mentor them out and have light/dark for the final battle. Dark dwarves own orcs so hard that its not even funny . Speaking of orcs - sylvan with swift mind + rain of frenzy will own them even harder, unless they have the dwarven shield.

In short maps it's academy, Sylvan, Necropolis. or dungenon. Sylvan and academy have best creeping at the beginning of the game

Sylvan has good creeping compared to the might factions without warmashines, but their creeping is light years behind the mighty havez.


Added some multiplayer tips.

[Variol]

I assume the above is referring to the "upgrade" ability of the Haven town, or heroes?

What's "arma"??