An interesting flashback

[Naskoni]

Thanks. I'm doing my best, but I'm afraid I have no chance against the arrogance of general ignorance. An example?
"and now the rather uncalled for resource "rebalance" (I might be wrong but where and when have the fans requested this, as there were tons of other stuff that was requested"
Fans' request is now the Holy Bible, while Fans' ignorance as in we don't bother to count to seven would never been changed due to no one requested that? Sounds a bit like politics, but hey, what's good enough for the world's leading power... err. Wrong board.
If only the people who stop playing would stop posting and get a life instead of trying to get a couple dozen parting shots in.

Yes, you are doing your best - going above and beyond whatever your your pay has suggested. One has but to wonder how irrespectively of whether it was the beta, the state of each patch and even now you pour tons of arguments how the game is more advanced, better polished and whatnot in comparison to whichever previous installment but on the other hand you seem to be part of such a nano-minority of people that find nothing wrong with the game... How come so few share your utmost enthusiasm with how Nival "works" on the game? I find it strange when you praise every single decision of theirs while seemingly almost everybody else is at a loss as to half the things they are doing? Maybe because there is hardly any communication with these people?

There are MANY complaints, argumented ones, that required MUCH more immediate attention than the current half-baked rebalance, which nobody asked for - so much for "we listen to the community", their priorities are somewhere else! What happened to the humongous bug list compiled by people that did and still do (well, maybe) care about the game, eh? What about that? Or maybe this rebalance was so damn vital the bugs had to wait, for example, 6 more months, right?

This game is played by the community, the customers, end-users but you obviously seem to think that their opinion is good only for the trash, isn't it? You have shared your opinion of how useless it is for us to constantly make suggestions because as you put it so nicely they won't change a iota because of what we think - as they have demonstrated pretty well themselves anyway. They demonstrate damn well an attitude of "we know best what you want, how you want it and when you want it" and according to you we should just agree with everything and shove it down as it is - no questions asked, for after all there is no point in doing so, no?

Yes, you and Chuckles would be so damn happy if the only posts made agreed with you completely elevating your status to the one of a HoMM Oracle, the all knowing, and new players wouldn't have to be bothered by incomprehensibly long lists of bugs (my current favourite - "not enought movement points" - now that was a hard one to squash, isn't it?), half-baked interface (interestingly enough at a certain stage of the beta the interface was actually better) and a semi-dumb AI (no, I don't mean the campaign one) - one that has to cheat like hell in order to present any challenge whatsoever. Life would have been good, no? By the way you have the exact same attitude to people still playing but "complaining" (they are ignorant and dumb for not seeing the light too or have simply not played "enough" or whatever that prevents them from understanding this so mega "complex" game, while you seemingly have no problem understanding everything, oh, the self esteem) so nothing new under the sun. At least you are not calling people idiots as often as in the beginning (talking about arrogance here), but it's maybe just me that have missed such recent posts...

As I said - you alone can make me coming back for more - I find you THAT ridiculous...

[DaemianLucifer]

Yes, you are doing your best - going above and beyond whatever your your pay has suggested.

Tis every bosses dream to have an employee like that

One has but to wonder how irrespectively of whether it was the beta, the state of each patch and even now you pour tons of arguments how the game is more advanced, better polished and whatnot in comparison to whichever previous installment but on the other hand you seem to be part of such a nano-minority of people that find nothing wrong with the game...

Amazingly,but youre wrong here.JJ did say once or twice that he doesnt like some stuff about HV.Yes,I know its shocking,but he did.

[ThunderTitan]

Amazingly,but youre wrong here.JJ did say once or twice that he doesnt like some stuff about HV.Yes,I know its shocking,but he did.

He might just have a bias towards the undead.


BTW JJ, so what you think is wrong with the game isn't true, seeing how you say Nival knows exactly what it's doing. Don't recall you saying that they fixed exactly what you didn't like. Then again i do have a pretty bad memory.

Oh, and what exactly is Constructive Criticism if ppl stateting how X or Y should be changed and why isn't??

[DaemianLucifer]

Oh, and what exactly is Constructive Criticism if ppl stateting how X or Y should be changed and why isn't??

Watching the daily show these last few days Ive relised how nival is a lot like bush.So to answer your question,constructive criticism would be if you said:"this aspect of HV is good because this and this,but this aspect of HV is even better because..."

[Campaigner]

No, it does't.

Heroes II & III had. HIV wasn't a HoMM game and part 1 I've never played.

There are many improvements but the small square battlefield and the artificial scripts (called A.I) decides it for me sine they are so important.

I don't even got Heroes V installed anymore. I will install it a final time with the expansion and see if I can finally finish my Ranger campaign without the game crashing within 10min (I will have a new computer by then so it shouldn't crash).

Shussar/schuyssar/whatever: You're not a day over 12, right?

DL, TT and Naskoni: Great posts

[asandir]

some marvelous posts there, especially you Naskoni, excellent

Watching the daily show these last few days Ive relised how nival is a lot like bush.So to answer your question,constructive criticism would be if you said:"this aspect of HV is good because this and this,but this aspect of HV is even better because..."

damn, that's what we've been doing wrong

it is wonderful now that I've gone back to HII how wonderfully inbalanced that game is, and how INSANELY fun it is .... and how sadly different this is to V

shame

[Humakt]

and 8 town limit.

Btw,did anyone check if this limmit is true?

The map editor certainly complains about it. But now that I've actually tested it, yes you can put more than 8 towns to the map and I even gave player 11 towns starting (with some 14 towns total). It worked but it obviously made the loading time much longer. I didn't test much beyond that.

[DaemianLucifer]

Well thats good to know.It seems that the rummors were just that:Rummors.

[asandir]

yeah, but I'm not sure I'd actually like to play a map with a heap of towns that lags really badly though

[DaemianLucifer]

Yes,that there engine might provide a bit of trouble.

[Jolly Joker]

Here's an excerpt of a post of mine (just as an example); please take note of the posting date:
"Posted Mon October 24 2005 01:52
Speaking of resources: I still strongly suggest to cut the resource demand for the Mage Guild. There is strong disbalance in terms of what you get and what you have to invest for the Mage Guild when you have those kinds of creature dwelling demands.
Suggestion: Halve the Resource costs for the 4 precious resources for Mage Guilds."
I can't give you the URL because this wasn't posted in an open forum.
Now, this is no proof that they do what people want (look at the time between that and now). What it shows is, that resource demand changes WERE called for. What I've seen is a ton of things like this creature is too strong and that is too weak, but I never saw a really serious resource balancing discussion except the two or three I initiated personally. The reason for that may be that people were too lazy to simply gather all the info and check things.

Anyway. If you read Naskoni's post you will have seen his comment about "not enought movement points" which is ridiculous beyond imagination. First this is no "bug", because it doesn't actually concern the game; in fact it is a LOCAL writing mistake in all ENGLISH language versions, but it's certainly no bug. Yes, it's easy to correct; no, not the coders are doing that. If you care to look into the bug list it actually dissolves into a list of cosmetic corrections that don't have any effect onto the game itself. I could go on and make some points about the AI: that a "non-cheating" AI cannot have a chance in a game like heroes (after the initial differences in starting values have been overcome in higher dif levels) because otherwise the player wouldn't deserve to be called intelligent. And so on and so forth.
Instead I could make a list of things that I personally could imagine better or different. I did that, but I usually don't make a fuss about it. Many of them are purely subjective. I don't think I should go ahead and try and bring Nival to build MY game; I would point out only things I'd find really broken. I did make a fuss about the manual; a good manual, nice and printed (not a pdf), is still a vital incentive to actually BUY a game. The manual the game comes with is actually an incentive NOT to.
And as a last point, supposedly I'm a lone defender against an overwhelming majority. Not true. A lot of people say actually, this or that might be better, but the game is good and gets even better. Editor is there now, let's wait for more maps. If you have a look at the posters you'll not find more than a handful who actually will always post something negative about the game because they are probably not only done with it, but actually disappointed because they had other hopes for the game - understandable, but sh1t happens. And against them I'm defending the basic game design and Nival's and Ubi's road to delivering the ultimate Heroes game UNTIL NOW. I do that, because the thing went down the drain already once with the Heroes 3 Addon and the Forge fiasco when too many people thought they knew a lot better than the developers who had given them fantastic games so far - with the game dying a slow death, since it wasn't the same after that. Basically it's the Forge all over again with some - there ARE rabid Nival haters around, for example WinterIsComing (who isn't anymore) -, so called and allegedly "fans" who go wild to see their personal game vision come true, disguising this with fake reasons and whatnot, always bringing up the same points over and over again ad infinitum.
Basically, Nival doesn't need to jump whenever self-appointed fans come up with something they don't like. They don't need to answer every request or put down their reasons for doing things the way they do. They don't have an obligation to "listen" to those self-appointed fans. They already did that before they actually designed the game.
Is it so hard to believe that they are actually doing their best? (yeah, I know: some may say now, if THAT'S their best, hell...) No amount of complaing can actually change the fact that Heroes V is the best in the row (but cannot compete with the fond memories people link with any of a prior installment). At this point the biggest problem of the game is a technical one: the "window" of gaming machines on which the game has a stellar performance may be a bit too small AT THIS POINT; it could be broader. This seems to be a compatibility issue more than a pure performance issue. I run the game on a laptop and have never even had even ONE crash or lag effect.
But back to Nival. For them there's a lot on the line. Think about it. A good performance with Heroes V, meaning good sales, will very probably secure them H VI. Note, that H V, from Ubi's position was NOT a major game project (!; maybe hard to believe for some, but the truth; that's why the cutscenes leave something to desire, for example; a question of available money; for Ubi this game is a try, nothing more). This may well change for VI, depending on sales of V and addons. IF VI would be a major title it would have another budget, giving more options - and of course an opportunity for Nival.
So you better believe it - everyone there is working on things. Everyone makes mistakes as well. There's always some sh1t happening. But strangely, it's always the "fans" that are most intent on bashing, thrashing, destroying, and condemning, IF and WHEN sh1t is happening - and not only then. Strange indeed.

[Humakt]

Everyone makes mistakes as well. There's always some sh1t happening. But strangely, it's always the "fans" that are most intent on bashing, thrashing, destroying, and condemning, IF and WHEN sh1t is happening - and not only then. Strange indeed.

Not really. Only "fans", as you say, and the fans (in positive tone I guess) are the only people really interested in these series; it's future, present and past. To the others this is just a game which they may have liked or not and they move on the other games once they've finished with this.

[DaemianLucifer]

If you care to look into the bug list it actually dissolves into a list of cosmetic corrections that don't have any effect onto the game itself.

The tent/border bugs in the campaigns are not cosmetic details.

I could go on and make some points about the AI: that a "non-cheating" AI cannot have a chance in a game like heroes (after the initial differences in starting values have been overcome in higher dif levels) because otherwise the player wouldn't deserve to be called intelligent.

And this has been brought lots of times before:Galciv.

And about your all personal game,and andfull of fans,the thigs I scream the most are the things very big number of people want:Caravans(at least they heard that),flagable windmills,linear casters and simretal(although the last one is probably 50-50 among those pro and against).Oh,and nagas,of course .The rest I usually put in a very nice thought and ask for others to give their ideas(good and bad).

As for nival doing their best,I doubt that a lot.And heres why:There are snow structures and trees and what not,yet no snow.That means they had to cut their work short because they were pressured by ubisoft.And there are other examples like this that mean just that:They rushed,and screwed up.

[Jolly Joker]

You should have more trust, DL. The game is not yet complete. Every picture of the addon shows a lot of snow around, for example.

[DaemianLucifer]

You should have more trust, DL. The game is not yet complete. Every picture of the addon shows a lot of snow around, for example.

Yes,I know that.And thats why I am angry(and why many others are angry).If the game isnt finished,why is it being sold as a finished product then?

[asandir]

to make a ze money!!!

[Jolly Joker]

Oh, and for the AI. GalCiv. You cannot compare them. With a FIXED tech tree like they have everyone can program a fixed "way" through the building tree to create "personalities"; for example, you want an aggressive expansionist? Let him concentrate on building warfare things and build attack ships early on with an aggressive demand policy. And poof. Wow! Great AI! Now reduce the points needed to actually do things with each difficulty level and voila.
Now to do this for heroes this would envolve:
Percentage reduction in building costs and creatures costs, for example:
Hard level -20%; Heroic Level -50%
Added creature growth, for example: Hard Level: +20%, Heroic, +50%
Fixed hero development trees for each kind of hero.
You can call this difficulty level adjustment. But the result is the same: the AI is playing a different game.

[DaemianLucifer]

to make a ze money!!!

Yet some still say ubi is a decent company

[Jolly Joker]

You should have more trust, DL. The game is not yet complete. Every picture of the addon shows a lot of snow around, for example.

Yes,I know that.And thats why I am angry(and why many others are angry).If the game isnt finished,why is it being sold as a finished product then?

The game IS finished. That doesn't mean you could put more things into it. Swamp terrain. Broken terrain. Bocage terrain. Night turns. Whatever the hell. Is a car finished when you buy the most basic version for 15000 bucks? Yes, sure. That doesn't mean you can put things into it for another 15000, right?

[DaemianLucifer]

Oh, and for the AI. GalCiv. You cannot compare them. With a FIXED tech tree like they have everyone can program a fixed "way" through the building tree to create "personalities"; for example, you want an aggressive expansionist? Let him concentrate on building warfare things and build attack ships early on with an aggressive demand policy. And poof. Wow! Great AI! Now reduce the points needed to actually do things with each difficulty level and voila.
Now to do this for heroes this would envolve:
Percentage reduction in building costs and creatures costs, for example:
Hard level -20%; Heroic Level -50%
Added creature growth, for example: Hard Level: +20%, Heroic, +50%
Fixed hero development trees for each kind of hero.
You can call this difficulty level adjustment. But the result is the same: the AI is playing a different game.

Say what?! The reduction/increase in the cost of the creatures wouldnt be needed if the AI was decent.And galciv is not any more fixed than heroes.So what if the tech tree is fixed?Planets arent.Annomalies arent.Races arent.And you have to count in diplomacy(in which galciv is quite good at),which just adds more complexity over heroes,not less.Then there are minor races and pirates as well.

You should have more trust, DL. The game is not yet complete. Every picture of the addon shows a lot of snow around, for example.

Yes,I know that.And thats why I am angry(and why many others are angry).If the game isnt finished,why is it being sold as a finished product then?

The game IS finished. That doesn't mean you could put more things into it. Swamp terrain. Broken terrain. Bocage terrain. Night turns. Whatever the hell. Is a car finished when you buy the most basic version for 15000 bucks? Yes, sure. That doesn't mean you can put things into it for another 15000, right?

Sure,but that car wont just stop for no reason in the middle of the drive.And even if they do that once,when you get your engine fixed(asuming that was the problem),you wont have your brakes broken.