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Corribus
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Unread postby Corribus » 10 Mar 2006, 22:39

Are you implying that 'King Kong' is a better film than 'Capote' or 'Crash'? Or is it just politics that made the big ape lose?
I'm not sure where you think I implied that. I did not see Capote. I did see Crash and wasn't very impressed. I also saw King Kong and was very entertained. So would I say King Kong was better than Crash? Personally, yes, I would, but I also don't think it's a fair comparison, because the movies are trying to do different things. Better to compare King Kong to (say) Independence Day and Crash to (say) American History X.
Wouldn't that necesarily imply that there were more of them made then? Movies really boomed around the mid of last century, and it would seem to me that there would have to be more there than there are now.
There's got to be a listing somewhere about how many movies are certified per year by the MPAA. I looked but I couldn't find it. That certainly wouldn't tell us how many good movies were made each year, but it would give an idea of how many movies (good and bad) were made each year.... at least back as far as the MPAA existed.
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Unread postby Derek » 11 Mar 2006, 16:28

Corribus wrote:
Are you implying that 'King Kong' is a better film than 'Capote' or 'Crash'? Or is it just politics that made the big ape lose?
I'm not sure where you think I implied that. I did not see Capote. I did see Crash and wasn't very impressed. I also saw King Kong and was very entertained. So would I say King Kong was better than Crash? Personally, yes, I would, but I also don't think it's a fair comparison, because the movies are trying to do different things. Better to compare King Kong to (say) Independence Day and Crash to (say) American History X.
Wouldn't that necesarily imply that there were more of them made then? Movies really boomed around the mid of last century, and it would seem to me that there would have to be more there than there are now.
There's got to be a listing somewhere about how many movies are certified per year by the MPAA. I looked but I couldn't find it. That certainly wouldn't tell us how many good movies were made each year, but it would give an idea of how many movies (good and bad) were made each year.... at least back as far as the MPAA existed.
The whole King Kong thing was in regards to you saying that the oscars are all about politics and money and that sometimes the most deserving films do not win. I merely picked King Kong because it was not too good in my mind...

MPAA, I shall look into that.
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Unread postby Corribus » 11 Mar 2006, 17:04

Derek wrote:The whole King Kong thing was in regards to you saying that the oscars are all about politics and money and that sometimes the most deserving films do not win. I merely picked King Kong because it was not too good in my mind...
It's a well accepted truth that the Oscars, particularly the Best Picture award, do not generally go to the "best" of each category. In the case of Best Picture, it is a well-documented fact that the studios behind each of the nominees (and even potential nominees, before the nominations are even made) wage advertising campaigns - among the academy voters - to try to garner the award for their films. This is because the Oscars are huge moneymakers: films which win, for example, Best Picture, are almost ensured another few months' run in movie theaters. And also slapping that "BEST PICTURE" on DVD cases certainly is very good incentive for people to buy a film they might not have seen, rather than just renting it. Thus there is a big incentive for studios to try to get their film to win an award like Best Picture. If I recall correctly, the studio behind Crash sent personal copies of the movie on DVD format to all of the academy viewers, as well as other "gifts". Thus it happens that the studio which wages the best advertising campaign will often come down with the trophy, even though it may not be "the best film". Furthermore, smaller studios and independent films obviously cannot compete with the advertising capabilities of the large production companies like New Line, Sony Pictures, Columbia Tristar, etc. Which is why "Big Blockbuster Movies" often win the big awards (Titanic anyone??) even though they probably don't deserve it.

Furthermore, there's a lot of politics involved. If you've won a few awards already, the academy seems more likely to turn you down. Shakespeare in Love winning Best Picture over Saving Private Ryan? Please... that was all because the academy didn't want to give another one to Spielburg. If the contest is between an actor/actress who has won the award three times and an actor/actress who has never won, it will often go to the one who has never won. It's a "well you won before, now it's someone else's turn" mentality. This also, in a way, comes down to money - the more "Academy Award Winning Actor So-and-So"s that are out there, the more movies that can use this as an advertising lure to sell movies. Notice how EVERYONE is an academy award winner, now? Notice how actors who have traditionally done comedy roles eventually move to drama, even if they're not really good at it? It's because they want to get that "Academy Award Winning Actor" title in front of their names, which is the acting equivalent of the Ph.D. You probably immediatley double your acting price if you have it.

Seriously, the whole system is a sham. And don't even get me started on Foreign Films - because often the best movies come from other countries and they rarely get anything besides an inclusion in the laughable "Best Foreign Film" category, which is so pretensiouly wrong it makes me sick. As I've mentioned before, the best movie (really, the best, thought-provoking jaw-gaping holy sh*t that was awesome movie) that I have seen in a long time was the German film Downfall. And what did it win? Bupkes. In fact, the whole Oscar phenomenon is nauseating, from the films that win, the money that is poured into them, to the royalty status we append to talentless celebs. Ugh, it just makes me sick.

And let's not even think about talking about the Grammys.
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Unread postby Justice » 11 Mar 2006, 17:16

The best movies I've seen since my father made me see spartacus, Ben HUr and all tohse old classics, who framed roger rabbit was fantastic, are the French Taxi movies... other than that it has mostly been the same and the same over and over. My list of good movies is depressingly short:

Who Framed Roger rabbit
Ben hur
spartacus
Der Untergang (that one is great)
taxi (I,II,III)
signs
Taken
Bravehearth
Good morning Vietnam

And a lot of the good old spagethi westerns...

THe only movies we see in the FAroes are American... in my memorie we have only had Taxi and Der untergang to my knowledge :disagree:


I'm a bit to late to get into the discussion I think, but let me just say that I agree with most of the negative things said here.

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Unread postby Corribus » 11 Mar 2006, 17:31

Justice wrote: Who Framed Roger rabbit
Awesome.
Ben hur
Awesome. You'll like The Ten Commandments, too, if you never saw it.
spartacus
The original Gladiator. Awesome.
Der Untergang (that one is great)
taxi (I,II,III)
Never seen them!
signs
Surely you jest.
Taken
Never seen it.
Bravehearth
Great movie. A little historically inaccurate, but it's an epic, so...
Good morning Vietnam
Another good one, I agree.
And a lot of the good old spagethi westerns...
Do you have a favorite? Eastwood?

Maybe some day I'll put my list of favorites.
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Unread postby Justice » 11 Mar 2006, 17:45

Signs is awesome the first time, but I can immagine how bad it would be the second time so I neve came to see it nr. 2 time :D

Forgott the ten commandments, that one is grea too... favorite... THe good the bad and the ugly.- Have gotten some Cds with all of morricones music :)

Taken was an American, Spielberg i think, TV show, aliens and so. They only took unknown actors to make it realistic, there were no explosions, insane car chases or anything like that, a lot of dee p meaning in it. THe aliens were very much like us but had lost their abbility to love and feel emphaty, they wanted it back and we follow some of the families it affects...
We don't show anything between the movies here the adversiments are only some 5 minutes all in all and come between the different movies... sounds like it isn't like that out in the big world...

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Unread postby DaemianLucifer » 11 Mar 2006, 17:50

Derek wrote: Certainly random conjecture is the backbone of this discussion, but you really now...not ever Hollywood film is like that. And even if they were, what would it matter? Swearing doesn't just make a film worse, if anything I would be upset if the characters did not speak in manners that would make them seem realistic. You could point me in the direction of a film that does just have token swearing in it, but I cannot recall a time when I did not think that the swearing in a film was justified and relevant to the scene at hand.
Ok,does this sound like live talk to you:"Oh,fudge";"Youre a poo-head";"Ouch,you nast bugger have kicked me";.....?I dont care for people swearing in movies,but then let them swear like they actually do.And you are right,not all the hollywood movies are bad.Theres always 1 or 2 of them every year that are good.But how many american movies are released every year?

@Corribus
I thin you said it somewhere that you liked Der Untergang.The english translation is Downfall.But I might be wrong as well.

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Unread postby Derek » 11 Mar 2006, 17:55

Look at year 2000

Seriously, that movie could be equated to a cinematic suppository. Looking at the list made me realize that I really had seen quite a few of these films, and did not agree at all on the overall ranking of them. 'The Sound of music'...guh, I cannot fathom why that one did so well. So I guess we cannot look at the academy, even looking beyond your conspiritorial(though likely true) criticisms on the institution. I am not sure where to proceed from here though...

I attempted to find out how many movies are made each year, apparently about 4000 were made each year from '85 to '95. That certainly is quite a bit, but I could not find any data on films before then. Go figure I guess. I suppose there is no way, unless someone can find such data, for us to substantiate either side of the argument.

However, while I am looking for said data, I would like to see, if you have compiled such a list, of your favorite films Corribus. Could be interesting methinks to see them(I shall try to articulate my list later today.)

Edit:
@DaemianLucifer
Personally I do not find such dialogue to be much different than the random banter that I hear between people on a daily basis. Then again, that may just be me. During my browsing, finding the above info, I found out that there are roughly 200-300 American(Hollywood) films made each year. That's quite a few, and I would be willing to bet that there are more than two good films made each year. If there weren't, then there would only be like 100 good films in the whole world. Oh, and while I am at it, what do you consider to be your favorite ten films? This would likely help in the discussion, and certainly you've seen a few films that I have not(and would likely want to view).
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Unread postby DaemianLucifer » 11 Mar 2006, 18:08

Derek wrote:Edit:
@DaemianLucifer
Personally I do not find such dialogue to be much different than the random banter that I hear between people on a daily basis. Then again, that may just be me. During my browsing, finding the above info, I found out that there are roughly 200-300 American(Hollywood) films made each year. That's quite a few, and I would be willing to bet that there are more than two good films made each year. If there weren't, then there would only be like 100 good films in the whole world. Oh, and while I am at it, what do you consider to be your favorite ten films? This would likely help in the discussion, and certainly you've seen a few films that I have not(and would likely want to view).
Errr...I think youre mistaken.Even among small children it is more common to hear f*** off,then bugger off.See the difference?

Ok,my favourites:

Ben hur
Spartacus
Clash of the titans
Saving private ryan
Forest gump
Clerks
Dogma
The butterfly effect
AI
Lock,stock and two smoking barrels

Well,there might be a few more I could add to the list,but I dont want to make it too long.

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Unread postby theLuckyDragon » 11 Mar 2006, 18:09

@ Derek
What's wrong with Gladiator? Although I would have prefered Chocolat...
DaemianLucifer wrote:Dogma
Now there's a good movie! I've recently seen it for the second time, on TV.
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Unread postby Justice » 12 Mar 2006, 12:32

Forgott Forest Gump :beheading:

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Unread postby Corribus » 13 Mar 2006, 04:08

Derek wrote: However, while I am looking for said data, I would like to see, if you have compiled such a list, of your favorite films Corribus. Could be interesting methinks to see them(I shall try to articulate my list later today.)
I shall give it some thought!
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Unread postby Derek » 16 Mar 2006, 02:58

Seems articulating such a list is harder than I had originally thought. For the duration, I think this shall be sufficient:

1.The 7th Voyage of Sinbad (Love that skeleton fight, really made me fall in love with fantasy at young age.)
2.Seven Samurai (:D)
3.GMK (Godzilla film, quite a step up from the more infamous films he is known for.)
4.The Hidden Fortress (Eat your heart out 'Star Wars'.)
5.Gamera 3:Revenge of Iris (Again, gotta love the Kaiju films. This one is very good, give it a shot!)
6.Casablanca (You must remember this?)
7.Godfather 2 (:devil:)
8.Citizen Kane (Rosebud...)
9.Gone with the Wind (Gah! Swearing already?! Is this medium already corrupted?)
10.Murder by Death (The only movie daring enough to have a blind man talk to a deaf woman.)

Well anyways, that's what I think. I have recently checked out a book on the subject dealing with cinema quality over the last century. Give me about a week, college does demand some work after all, and I'll have read through it all. Then, I suppose we(I) shall see.
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Unread postby ThunderTitan » 18 Mar 2006, 13:00

Coming this summer: Snakes on a Plane! Starring Samuel L. Jackson. And snakes. On a plane.

http://www.tagworld.com/snakesonaplane
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Unread postby Derek » 18 Mar 2006, 16:50

ThunderTitan wrote:Coming this summer: Snakes on a Plane! Starring Samuel L. Jackson. And snakes. On a plane.

http://www.tagworld.com/snakesonaplane
You just heard about this? I've been confused and scared for quite a long time over this piece of sssssss***. People will go see it though.
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Unread postby ThunderTitan » 19 Mar 2006, 00:59

Sorry, I'm not really into upcoming movies anymore. But c'mon, snakes on a plane. It's so.... snakes on a plane, I mean wow, you know...
I haven't seen such a great concept since... mutated inbred hillbillies... so i'll probably watch it. Not at a cinema though.. snakes on a plane.. 8|

Hey, look someone even made a webcomic about it: SNAKES ON A PLANE - THE COMIC
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Unread postby Derek » 20 Mar 2006, 16:10

I know, it is a stupid idea. And believe me, when I first heard about it I almost died laughing. That is some of the worst cgi I've seen in a film in a long time, and the premise is laughable on many levels. Makes you wonder who originally conceived the idea... :baby:
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Unread postby Corribus » 21 Mar 2006, 18:43

Corribus wrote:
Derek wrote: However, while I am looking for said data, I would like to see, if you have compiled such a list, of your favorite films Corribus. Could be interesting methinks to see them(I shall try to articulate my list later today.)
I shall give it some thought!
So I gave this some thought, and I have to say, it's nearly impossible to come up with a single list, because different movies obviously are trying to do different things. For instance, is Predator among the greatest movies ever made? That's a matter of taste, but it certainly is one of my favorite action movies. Anyway, bear in mind, when you look at my list, that it is hard to directly compare some of them. Note that while I provide numbers, these are not numerical ranks. There are simply "some" (i.e., 50) of my favorites. I have excluded comedies and animated films.

1. Godfather 1 and 2
2. Alien and Alien 2
3. Ben Hur
4. The Good, the Bad and the Ugly
5. Shawshenk Redemption
6. The Shining
7. One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest
8. Apocalypse Now
9. Braveheart
10. Predator
11. Excalibur (if only for Merlin)
12. Downfall
13. Platoon
14. The Ten Commandments
15. Goodfellas
16. Papillon
17. Last of the Mohicans
18. Das Boot
19. Schindler's List
20. Seven Samurai (Seven, the Western remake, is also good)
21. Star Wars
22. Raiders of the Lost Ark
23. Pulp Fiction
24. Usual Suspects
25. Memento
26. Silence of the Lambs
27. The Matrix
28. To Kill a Mockingbird
29. Chinatown
30. Requiem for a Dream
31. The Manchurian Candidate (original)
32. Amadeus
33. Jaws
34. The Wizard of Oz
35. Blade Runner
36. Terminator 2: Judgement Day
37. The Princess Bride
38. The Lord of the Rings IV, V, VI
39. Philadelphia
40. Die Hard
41. Rain Man
42. Ikiru
43. Various early Bond films
44. Spartacus
45. Conan
46. Enter the Dragon
47. Star Trek II: Wrath of Khan
48. Rocky
49. Scent of a Woman

Ok I got tired at 49. So, there you go Derek. Some of my favorites, off the top of my head, without looking at my collection. I'm sure I forgot a bunch, though...
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Unread postby Derek » 21 Mar 2006, 20:10

Corribus wrote:38. The Lord of the Rings IV, V, VI
Is this a typo? Seems as though you are talking about Star Wars, but that's higher up on the list.

Either way, your comment about Predator is correct. I list some films, Godzilla and Gamera, that are certainly not up to the cinematic quality as the others on my list(although those two films are quite a bit of fun.) Since the list was for what your favotite films are then it works.

Why did you exclude comedies and animated films? 'Fantasia', 'Spirited Away', and 'Duck Soup' are all fine films. Did you exclude them because there are too many to choose from, or is there a different reason?

Almost done with that book...
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Unread postby Corribus » 21 Mar 2006, 20:20

Derek wrote: Is this a typo? Seems as though you are talking about Star Wars, but that's higher up on the list.
Yes, a typo. Meant I, II, III.
Why did you exclude comedies and animated films? 'Fantasia', 'Spirited Away', and 'Duck Soup' are all fine films. Did you exclude them because there are too many to choose from, or is there a different reason?
No particular reason I excluded them; I recognize there are good movies in both categories, and I do have favorites from each one. But I would have probably been up to 100 if I had included them. :) Maybe next time!
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