HoMM III: Best level 1 creature

[Muszka]

And still it seems that this is the best AI among all Heroes series.

It maybe that the AI in Heroes IV isn't as good as the one in H3, especially on the adv.map, but in combat sometimes can fight fiercly even equal the H3's AI.

[UndeadHalfOrc]

Again, no.
. Starting with Ignatius grading Imps up right away is possible as well.

Ah, Ignatius... whenever I see him I get nostalgic and think about you, JJ. Now why is that?

Anyway, imps suck, but in my patch, making them a LOT cheaper and raising their growth made them a decent, viable force now. They certainly proved a bother in one campaign scenario that I replayed recently where the opponent starts with 4 infernos.

[Mirez]

I don't see how centaur captains can be the best level 1 unit, sure their stats ar great and might win every 1 v 1, but they aren't of any use later in the game since they get slaughtered by any high level in 1 attack
sure master gremlins need protection but they can still deal considarable damage when protected
sceletons aswell, they might sux 1 v 1 but due necromancy they are tough

as for the 'how should we rate creatures' debate:
I think we should rate creatures on what impact they have in the game
centaurs are nice in the start for taking out enemy shooters but later they sux, sceletons however get stronger and stronger

[Gaidal Cain]

Mod Note: The discussion about Inferno starting strategy was split off to a separate thread.

[Gaidal Cain]

I don't see how centaur captains can be the best level 1 unit, sure their stats ar great and might win every 1 v 1, but they aren't of any use later in the game since they get slaughtered by any high level in 1 attack

Which is true for any low level creature except skeletons. That is like saying that a particular level 6 creature is bad because it only has growth 2.

[Jolly Joker]

I don't agree with that.
Familiars or Imps retain their "use" - it's the only unit for Inferno that makes sense to sacrifice voluntarily to boost your demons due to the resurrection mechanics of the Pit Lords and the unit characteristcs of the Inferno and is realistically possible as well.
I agree that they don't retain their use as Imps/Familiars, so it's more a technical thing, but I think as a point it's valid.
Moreover:
Sprites and Caps will be used as Scouting and Secondary hero "army" - not THAT important, but still... (Familiars and Hobgoblins get half a point here... later on I like to switch to Cerberus and Wolf Raider because of the extra tile).
In fact, Sprites and Caps KEEP their value later on on bigger maps - a sloid number of them, can clear "pockets" - if you have a really good hero whether you have 300 Sprites in your army or none at all may be irrelevant, but they may capture interesting artifacts, far away mines and so on. That's true for Master Gremlins as well, by the way, and a secondary Warlock with 100 Trogs can do the same thing.

Keep in mind that it sometimes pays NOT to have 7 stacks in your army: you may have to fight against dragons; you may get a join of NOT upgraded creatures...

[Gaidal Cain]

Familiars or Imps retain their "use" - it's the only unit for Inferno that makes sense to sacrifice voluntarily to boost your demons due to the resurrection mechanics of the Pit Lords and the unit characteristcs of the Inferno and is realistically possible as well.
I agree that they don't retain their use as Imps/Familiars, so it's more a technical thing, but I think as a point it's valid.

Considering that it's total HP that's the important parameter for demon production, Familiars are actually the third worst standard level 1 creature for that purpose. Their high speed certainly helps in that regard, but you would realistically be able to do the same thing against a suitable opponent no matter which level 1 unit you'd use (well, perhaps not Master Gremlins since they are so slow). And it's a bit strange to argue that since they are so bad, they can safely be converted into something else.

[Pol]

Considering that it's total HP that's the important parameter for demon production, Familiars are actually the third worst standard level 1 creature for that purpose.

Actually they perform in that pretty well. HP isn't the only factor here, and as an Inferno player you are unlikely to command hordes of Pixies or such. Also don't forget that Familiars can steal mana. This is very underestimated feature, but in dire times it can be decisive. I personally like them.

From some texts over Heroes Chronicles they should be also able to sniff a gold.

[Gaidal Cain]

Actually they perform in that pretty well. HP isn't the only factor here, and as an Inferno player you are unlikely to command hordes of Pixies or such.

Pixies would be even worse to turn into Demons.

Also don't forget that Familiars can steal mana.

Not as Demons.

[Pol]

It seems to me that you are not evaluating price and growth, in your 'demons summoning' effectiveness.

[Gaidal Cain]

Price? No, because is usually not the issue. Growth is included: the weakly production of HP is what matters, and there Familiars are only ahead of Master Gremlins and Sprites.

[Pol]

I mind price, m able to turn familiars into demons somewhere between second and third week. (Don't forget that m playing on the Impossible difficulty)

[Pitsu]

With inferno grail imps rock.

By stats the best level 1 awad goes to centaur captains.

Best special among lvl 1 is certainly no retal of sprites combined with their speed.

Most valuable to native town in early game are master gremlins. Every other town does better than tower if forced to use only lvl 2-3 early on. Necro and skeletons possibly second.

In late game skeletons are the most considerable force of lvl1 creatures. (And imps with the grail of course ). With other shooters in army also gremlins have a good chance to get a few free shots out and be a pain for the enemy.

Surely there is no creature that can be called "the best" without specifying how this word is defined.

[Jolly Joker]

Well, you have to combine all those observations and pick the best. That's what makes it interesting.

[Muszka]

Familiars?
I aree with Pol in the Demon thing. It may not seem a much, and may not get as many as skeletrons, but if you get +100 in a small map, than that's stronger then 1000 familiars, what anyway would die on the move.

[Mirez]

I don't see how centaur captains can be the best level 1 unit, sure their stats ar great and might win every 1 v 1, but they aren't of any use later in the game since they get slaughtered by any high level in 1 attack

Which is true for any low level creature except skeletons. That is like saying that a particular level 6 creature is bad because it only has growth 2.

your missing my point, centaurs are totally useless because they get slayed in lategame
gremlins however can deal damage and be protected for slaughtering at the same time

[Jolly Joker]

You can shoot them fairly easily. If you say they won't be targeted you include other units in the rating as well - they won't be targeted because there are lots of more dangerous creatures - which would make Zombies rather good then.
Moreover they don't steal a retaliation when they are shooting and their damage will be pretty low later on anyway.

[Alamar]

Hmm ... By themselves it's a no brainer victory for Centaurs but I think that the Master Gremlins work just a little bit better with other troops than the Centaurs.

After all nobody had to patch the game to stop a Centaur Rush Exploit

[BoardGuest808888]

Vote Centaur Captain

this is one very useful creature you can use throughout the game

[enk]

My top three would be Centaur Captains, Skeleton (Warriors) and Sprites but the order is is quite another thing.

The caps have stats on their side but as has been pointed out, they are not really used that much (because of Grand Elves no doubt). They are a decent stack however for level 1 units. While not a spearhead unit by any means, they make a nice addition to the Rampart offensive lineup. They move pretty fast, hit pretty hard and die pretty quickly. Personally I think that Rampart offensive can make use of them if you're not having anything more useful to use that one slot for. Maybe they just hit once in the final battle but hey, at least for somewhat decent damage and there's one less retaliation for your other units to worry about.

The sprites then? Very good, but VERY fragile. No matter how carefully they're played, you can lose significant amounts to pure bad luck like to an enemy in a neutral stack getting good morale at just the wrong moment, reaching your sprites and mopping the floor with them. Another thing is sieges. Even early game there might be citadels with some units inside and this is going to HURT them sprites a lot. The solution is, of course, to avoid sieges with your sprite army. It's of course really dependent on the map and whether these towns are neutral or AI controlled. Also, since stacks are often random, if your friendly neighborhood neutral stacks are mostly shooters, that's trouble for the sprites. This is the kind of bad luck I'm talking about. However, with decent luck they are good early game creatures, like has been pointed. In greater battles they really play no part. They hit hard (amongst level 1 creatures that is), but their damage potential diminished very quickly once they get hit.

And then the skeletons, which I'll probably put my vote on. First of all, I think it's definitely necessary to consider them from the PoV that includes necromancy. You'll get expert necromancy quite early on (especially if the first few skills you're offered are trash) and once the skels reach their critical mass, their numbers are going to grow. Fast. I'm not a big fan of micromanaging chains of transportations, so an army that increases in number as it presses forward is, in my opinion, a very efficient expanding force. Of course all this depends highly on the amount of food, but most maps (random maps at least) have enough (after all, since most places are guarded by something, it's very usual that the closest places are guarded by level 1 creatures, aka food). The skeletons sure aren't as effective as the sprites or the caps right off the bat, but they'll gain rather quickly. When it comes to the final battle, the skels may or may not be important. If they have been growing quickly and the battle occurs near the point of saturation (no more food left), they might be a serious threat. If not, well, at least the enemy has to do something about them since they're still going to hit hard. So I'd argue that they're useful always in early game, usually in mid game and (very) rarely in the grand final, making them the best level 1 unit. Necromancy cast aside drops them below gnolls and trogs. Ouch.

The order? Can't still say whether I'd prefer sprites or caps, but skels go first if necromancy is considered a factor (and I think it should, because it's the default scenario for necros anyway).

That's how I vote.