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Unread postby Derek » 07 Mar 2006, 15:29

@charleswatkins
Sure, I can agree to that for sure. I've always figured that it takes more ads to sell a movie like 'Stealth' than a good film like 'Signs'. I will look into the oscars thing, but I doubt the accuracy of it because all the films winning best picture(etc.) are going to be, if nothing else, above the par as far as quality goes.

I bring up nostalgia because of your assertion about the 'dumbing down' of people in the public. Mayhap this is not the case, but there have always been enough stupid people to go around.

I do not recall ever equating popularity to quality. However, if I must set the record straight on this one, I shall that I do not think this is the case.

BTW, nice to know I am not the only Ray Harryhausen fan here on the boards. :-D

@Corribus
I only watched the oscars to see Jon Stewart's monologue. Go figure.
Corribus wrote:Basically, anyone out there who maintains that the movie industry (heck, any entertainment industry) hasn't changed during the last half century is deluding themselves. The industry is saturated with overpaid yet undertalented actors, greedy producers and undiscriminating viewers, and this is why so much dreck is out there.
You'll have to elaborate on exactly what you mean by this(as everything you note was how the movie industry worked in the past). I am sure you recall the brutal contracts that actors were forced to sign back in the day? Surely that is can only be chalked up to greedy producers and the like. I cannot comment on the talent of actors, but I just watched 'The Verdict' yesterday with Paul Newman, and I saw no lacking in talent as far as the acting went. It was in the '80s, but it still is worth noting. As far as viewers go...people go see films because they are on the big screen. You need something to do after school, go see a movie(I mention teens because they are likely the target audience for these so despised 'explosion' flicks). It really is just that simple.

Your comments on DVDs are very important, and certainly that is one part of the Movie industry that is changing. Although, I must admit, seeing a film on the screen does have a certain charm to it that cannot be beaten so easily...
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Unread postby Corribus » 07 Mar 2006, 16:31

Derek wrote:Sure, I can agree to that for sure. I've always figured that it takes more ads to sell a movie like 'Stealth' than a good film like 'Signs'.
Are you kidding? Signs was terrible. The ending was so full of laughable inconsistencies that I don't see how anyone could take that movie seriously.
You'll have to elaborate on exactly what you mean by this(as everything you note was how the movie industry worked in the past). I am sure you recall the brutal contracts that actors were forced to sign back in the day? Surely that is can only be chalked up to greedy producers and the like. I cannot comment on the talent of actors, but I just watched 'The Verdict' yesterday with Paul Newman, and I saw no lacking in talent as far as the acting went. It was in the '80s, but it still is worth noting. As far as viewers go...people go see films because they are on the big screen. You need something to do after school, go see a movie(I mention teens because they are likely the target audience for these so despised 'explosion' flicks). It really is just that simple.
There have certainly always been greedy producers and undertalented actors (just as there have always been, and are now, producers who actually want to make good films and actors who can actually act). The difference is that the industry has not always been as big as it is today. The amount of money spent on some movies today would have seemed ludicrous, I imagine, to peope "back in the day". Like everything else, many forms of "art" are no longer "art" because they have become so commercialized. Occasionally people still make films because they have an artistic vision (although - by and large these "artists" have to bow to the whims of production companies, who fit the bills; most people can't afford to shoot a movie by themselves anymore). If they are able to follow their vision with a free hand, then usually you get a good movie. But too often even these visionaries see their work corrupted by production companies that want to call the shots in order to maximize their profit margins. Who knows if Alfred Hitchcock, Ingmar Bergman or some of the other great old directors would have made the great movies they had made if they had been making movies in today's marketplace. My guess is: NO.
Your comments on DVDs are very important, and certainly that is one part of the Movie industry that is changing. Although, I must admit, seeing a film on the screen does have a certain charm to it that cannot be beaten so easily...
I will agree with you, that, all things being equal, I'd rather see a movie in the theater. Unfortunately, all things are usually not equal. The classical reasons I'd rather watch a movie at home is: (A) more confortable (B) no crowds (C) can pause the movie at a whim (D) "free" food and drink and (E) CHEAP. Usually these postitives for home-watching were counterbalanced by the "pros" of the theater: (A) bigger screen, (B) surround sound, (C) better picture quality (widescreen) and (D) get to see the movie earlier. As I said, though, the availability of "home-theaters" has to a large extent negated A-C as reasons to go see a movie in the theater (although not completely - home theathers will never be able to equal seeing a big movie in a big theater, IMO). On average, about the only thing the theather has going for it is the fact that movies come to commercial theathers first, and if you want to see the movie in your own home, you are going to have to wait. Of course, this is what a lot of people (myself included) are doing... but more to the point - if it ever comes to movies being released on DVD simultaneously to movie theaters, then I think that is it for movie theaters. There's just not enough other advantages to seeing the movie at a local theater in that case.

I used to see probably 1-2 movies a month in movie theaters, when I was in High School and even college. Now it's a big thing if I see more than 1-2 movies a year in movie theaters. And I don't even have a fancy home theater get up.

The movie theaters are in trouble and there's nothing they can really do about it because Hollywood (and the viewers) hold all the cards. The only way I think that theaters can turn the tables is to lower prices, particularly concession prices, but they can't because Hollywood gets such a large cut of money from theaters that the profit margin for movie theaters is very narrow and almost totally subsidized by concession prices. The only way it could happen is for Hollywood to pay actors less to reduce the cost of moviemaking, but that's never going to happen.
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Unread postby Derek » 07 Mar 2006, 19:40

Corribus wrote:Are you kidding? Signs was terrible. The ending was so full of laughable inconsistencies that I don't see how anyone could take that movie seriously.
Erm...all I can say is that it was a good film and that it was critically acclaimed. Although Ebert does not have the final say when it comes to films, and he has said some stupid things over the years, I do direct you to his review of it. He gives it 4 stars BTW...Review
There have certainly always been greedy producers and undertalented actors (just as there have always been, and are now, producers who actually want to make good films and actors who can actually act). The difference is that the industry has not always been as big as it is today. The amount of money spent on some movies today would have seemed ludicrous, I imagine, to peope "back in the day". Like everything else, many forms of "art" are no longer "art" because they have become so commercialized. Occasionally people still make films because they have an artistic vision (although - by and large these "artists" have to bow to the whims of production companies, who fit the bills; most people can't afford to shoot a movie by themselves anymore). If they are able to follow their vision with a free hand, then usually you get a good movie. But too often even these visionaries see their work corrupted by production companies that want to call the shots in order to maximize their profit margins. Who knows if Alfred Hitchcock, Ingmar Bergman or some of the other great old directors would have made the great movies they had made if they had been making movies in today's marketplace. My guess is: NO.
I agree with most of what you say, but the hypothetical nature of your last comment(dealing with Hitchcock) is too far of a stretch for me to accept. And besides, it is not as though everything the guy made was fantastic.

The industry is unquestionably bigger than it used to be, and there is much more money in it than there used to. But money does not necesarily imply that there is lack of talent(dedication), and commercialization does not mean that it is no longer 'art'. What is your definition of art anyways? Is 'Who framed Roger Rabbit' not an artistic film? At its completion that was the most exspensive film ever produced(Source)...search for 'produced' and it will eventually come up.

What films do you know had the 'artistic vision' cut out of them for the sake of money? Certainly I am cynical enough to believe that, but I would like to see a source(or better yet, sources)...
I will agree with you, that, all things being equal, I'd rather see a movie in the theater. Unfortunately, all things are usually not equal. The classical reasons I'd rather watch a movie at home is: (A) more confortable (B) no crowds (C) can pause the movie at a whim (D) "free" food and drink and (E) CHEAP. Usually these postitives for home-watching were counterbalanced by the "pros" of the theater: (A) bigger screen, (B) surround sound, (C) better picture quality (widescreen) and (D) get to see the movie earlier. As I said, though, the availability of "home-theaters" has to a large extent negated A-C as reasons to go see a movie in the theater (although not completely - home theathers will never be able to equal seeing a big movie in a big theater, IMO). On average, about the only thing the theather has going for it is the fact that movies come to commercial theathers first, and if you want to see the movie in your own home, you are going to have to wait. Of course, this is what a lot of people (myself included) are doing... but more to the point - if it ever comes to movies being released on DVD simultaneously to movie theaters, then I think that is it for movie theaters. There's just not enough other advantages to seeing the movie at a local theater in that case.

I used to see probably 1-2 movies a month in movie theaters, when I was in High School and even college. Now it's a big thing if I see more than 1-2 movies a year in movie theaters. And I don't even have a fancy home theater get up.

The movie theaters are in trouble and there's nothing they can really do about it because Hollywood (and the viewers) hold all the cards. The only way I think that theaters can turn the tables is to lower prices, particularly concession prices, but they can't because Hollywood gets such a large cut of money from theaters that the profit margin for movie theaters is very narrow and almost totally subsidized by concession prices. The only way it could happen is for Hollywood to pay actors less to reduce the cost of moviemaking, but that's never going to happen.
Ah...but seeing a Godzilla film in the theaters is something else. The fact is that the big guy sure looks great on a large screen. Oh yes, I agree with what you said. The industry is in quite a bit of trouble. But, to be fair, most of the entertainment mediums suffered a hit this year.

Hollywood would be wise to take a lesson from Japanese cinema, not going to happen ever. Certainly the 90's Gamera triology shows how great films can be made on a low budget AND have great effects. Actors don't make the ludicrous amounts of money that they make in the US, but the market dictates that the actors get paid that much. Sad, but true.
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Unread postby Corribus » 07 Mar 2006, 20:32

Erm...all I can say is that it was a good film and that it was critically acclaimed. Although Ebert does not have the final say when it comes to films, and he has said some stupid things over the years, I do direct you to his review of it. He gives it 4 stars BTW...
I don't bother reading what the critics have to say (especially a single one of them) because (A) much of the time I think they are wrong and (B) who knows if they are really trustworthy, especially the big names and especially when it comes to big-budget films.

But as for Signs (SPOILER WARNING) - the whole premise is based on a bunch of technologically advanced aliens, to whom water is fatally toxic, who decide to take over a planet that is covered over 70% by water and whose atmosphere is loaded with the stuff. Yeah. That's what I call credibility out the window. It's the same problem that was faced by last year's War of the Worlds, another complete wreck of a movie that ended by some poorly contrived deus ex machine that we're all supposed to just buy. In fact, the two films are quite comparable - both directors do an excellent job of the finer details but are awful when it comes to wrapping up the package as a whole. Spielberg is notorious for it. The man can craft a scene like nobody else, but on the whole many of his movies are ruined because he sacrifices the forest so that he can take great pictures of the trees.
I agree with most of what you say, but the hypothetical nature of your last comment(dealing with Hitchcock) is too far of a stretch for me to accept. And besides, it is not as though everything the guy made was fantastic.
No, but he made his movies the way he wanted to. Nobody told him.

The industry is unquestionably bigger than it used to be, and there is much more money in it than there used to. But money does not necesarily imply that there is lack of talent(dedication), and commercialization does not mean that it is no longer 'art'.
No it doesn't mean that it is no longer art - but it does mean that studios who are forking over millions of dollars to produce a movie are typically going to have a say over the direction that the movie is going because they want to maximize their profit margins. The line of what is art and what isn't is a thin one, but once you cross into that regime where the studio begins to make changes to a movie based upon factors designed to sell more copies, you are no longer really making art. You are making a commercial product. Is it art, too? Maybe... but the "quality" of the "art" certainly usually suffers when business, as they say, is mixed with pleasure.
What films do you know had the 'artistic vision' cut out of them for the sake of money? Certainly I am cynical enough to believe that, but I would like to see a source(or better yet, sources)...
Oh, come on. The studios change things all the time prior to release because they want to maximize their audiences. Here are three examples (I don't necessarily claim these are great films - just that what the director wanted and the studio wanted differed and the studio won out).

1. The original Blade movie had a completely different ending, but the studio demanded it be changed because of viewer reaction during test screening indicated that viewers didn't like the ending (or, if I recall, they "lost interest" or something cryptic like that). Whether or not the change to a new ending made the movie better or not is immaterial. The fact that the studio demanded it be changed is evidence enough that the success of the movie takes precedence over what the "artist" wanted. In fact, the mere fact that they have test screenings at all is testament to this. Many movies are test-screened for this very purpose. That's not necessarily a bad thing, by the way. But it does show that the artistic vision can be sacrificed to make the movie a more attractive product.

2. As I understand it, the original script of Aliens vs. Predator was supposed to be much more violent and much more true to the original movies' premise of "sci-fi horrow". But the studio responsible wanted to capture the teenage video-gaming audience and so they hacked up the script to make it more "children friendly" and to garner a PG13 rating. Actually this happens quite often. As a result, the movie was absolutely terrible, by the way. Not that it would have necessarily been good anyway, but how could a watered-down Aliens movie be attractive to anyone?

3. Each of the Lord of the Rings movies had a very large chunk removed prior to release because producers felt the movie would be too long to attract audiences to the theater. This is why there were "Special Extended" versions released on DVD. The extended versions are much better, by the way. Actually the Lord of the Rings movies are a good example of how different studios may demand different things. As I recall, when Jackson originally pitched the movie, the first studio he tried to sell it to wanted to make the whole trilogy in one movie, and wouldn't budge. So he took it elsewhere.

By the way, I had a conversation with someone on the RT about movies and art a long time ago. If you're interested, you can find it here:
http://www.forumplanet.com/StrategyPlan ... id=1103519

My "debate" with JollyJoker and others regarding art and commercialism, specifically in the context of the Terminator films, starts on page 6, although it begins as yet another argument about the Forge. THe movie stuff starts on the bottom of page 7.
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Unread postby ThunderTitan » 07 Mar 2006, 22:11

Corribus wrote: It's the same problem that was faced by last year's War of the Worlds, another complete wreck of a movie that ended by some poorly contrived deus ex machine that we're all supposed to just buy. In fact, the two films are quite comparable - both directors do an excellent job of the finer details but are awful when it comes to wrapping up the package as a whole. Spielberg is notorious for it. The man can craft a scene like nobody else, but on the whole many of his movies are ruined because he sacrifices the forest so that he can take great pictures of the trees.

War of the Worlds!? You do know it's based on a H.G. Welles book, and they couldn't just change the ending as it wouldn't be War of the Worlds anymore. :D
They could have adapted it as maybe to only have part of the aliens get sick and the rest leave or something... Frankly I was more annoyed by the "they buried their ships under our cities millions of years ago" crap than the ending (but then again I already knew the ending).
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Unread postby Gaidal Cain » 07 Mar 2006, 22:27

Corribus wrote:Who knows if Alfred Hitchcock, Ingmar Bergman or some of the other great old directors would have made the great movies they had made if they had been making movies in today's marketplace. My guess is: NO.
Considering that at least the latter has been doing projects up to recently, it would be very easy for someone who has a broader knowledge of his work than I do to tell ;)
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Unread postby Corribus » 07 Mar 2006, 23:36

ThunderTitan wrote: War of the Worlds!? You do know it's based on a H.G. Welles book, and they couldn't just change the ending as it wouldn't be War of the Worlds anymore. :D
Right - I was referring more to the way in which the end was played out in the movie. There was no buildup at all to it. It was like, "OK, we ran out of money. So the aliens all died because of germs. The end."
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Unread postby ThunderTitan » 07 Mar 2006, 23:45

More like "we ran out of time and ideeas", but yeah, it was too sudden. Your point didn't come across because of the comparison to Signs.
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Unread postby Corribus » 08 Mar 2006, 03:07

ThunderTitan wrote:More like "we ran out of time and ideeas", but yeah, it was too sudden. Your point didn't come across because of the comparison to Signs.
Yeah. In Signs, the ending made no sense at all. In WotW, it made sense but it just wasn't implemented very well.
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Unread postby DaemianLucifer » 08 Mar 2006, 08:26

About those mentioned movies:

Signs - :|

War of the worlds - Ooh!Look at me,I am tom cruize,a superhero!This movie should be about a whole race,not just one super dad.

Blade - I never really liked vampires,so I wont comment this one.Instead,Ill comment from dusk till dawn - A really promising movie.But it somehow fells like they went "How are we to untangle the plot?I know!Lets throw in a bunch of vampires!" :disagree:

LoTR - This book simply cannot be filmed!Why did they do it anyway?And they did it quite poorly as well.I commented so many times before about missing details and ruined characters,so I wont repeat myself.

Ill just trow one more here:

I,robot - This is actually one big commercial posing itself as a movie.I think asimov is still turning in his grave because of this one. :disagree: :flame:

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Unread postby Corribus » 08 Mar 2006, 15:30

DaemianLucifer wrote: I,robot - This is actually one big commercial posing itself as a movie.I think asimov is still turning in his grave because of this one. :disagree: :flame:
That's another good point - studios force "suggestive advertising" on their directors all the time... especially in "futuristic" films.
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Unread postby Derek » 08 Mar 2006, 16:12

All I can say about War of the Worlds is that the original book(story anyways) was written as an allegorical attack against the British occupation of Africa. The first movie that was made about this story in 1953 changed the focus of the story from detailing the struggles of a philosopher(I believe that's who the lead was in the book) to more of a military standpoint. The 2005 edition of the film changes the focus more to the realm of the 'common man'. I'll admit no common mad should be able to destroy one of the tripod things, but I think the rest of the film is fine. The reason that the ending seems 'tacked on' is that the common man would not be privy to knowledge of the aliens and their weapons. Personally I think the 2005 film was better than the 1953 version, but it was not anything great by a long shot.

Corribus...
You were talking about how artistic vision is corrupted by Hollywood in an attempt at making money. Now, I remained skeptical of this because you had not showed blatant examples of movies being changed a great deal. AvP is pretty good, bu not what I was looking for in terms of corruption on the part of the studio. However, I now do agree with you about this topic. I recently viewed 'Godzilla 2000', not the version that was released in theaters here but the original Japanese version of the film. Holy crap did they change everything! The American version of the film changed:

1.The whole musical score
2.Added in cheesy UFO sound effects to make it 'campier'
3.Changed Godzilla's roar in some places(:disagree:)
4.And, wost of all, changed dialogue so that it might seem sillier, and therefore draw in more to see it. Behold...

(If you have not seen the film then it will be hard to get the significance of these lines. Take my word for it though, it is a major change.)
"Well, I'm not saying we wouldn't get our hair mussed." (original was, "I have taken that into consideration")
"They'll go through Godzilla like CRAP through a goose!" (original was, "They'll go through Godzilla no matter how tough he is!")
"Let's just hope it's friendly!" ("Is that why it discarded it's original body?")
"I'll Send Flowers" (original was, "This is the last day for your network")
"Great Ceasar's Ghost!" (was , "Look!")
"Gott in Himmel!" (original was, "We're in danger!")
"Nice try asshole!" (original was, "Somehow I managed to survive!")
"Why does Godzilla always protect us?" (original was, "It was us human beings that created this monster")
"Maybe, there's a little Godzilla in every one of us." (original was, "Godzilla is in ourselves, in everybody's mind")

Notice the swearing or otherwise more offensive lines in the new American version of everything. Now I am sure someone reading this is going to question Godzilla's 'artistic integrity' but the fact is that the original vision of the film was distorted on the American release just for the sake of money. I cannot agree to this(even though the film did gross way more than it cost to ship over here.) Even if some find the American version better than the original I cannot agree to this changing of so much just for the sake of money.
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Unread postby Corribus » 08 Mar 2006, 17:50

Derek wrote: I recently viewed 'Godzilla 2000', not the version that was released in theaters here but the original Japanese version of the film. Holy crap did they change everything! The American version of the film changed:
Actually you bring up another great example of how publishers/producers change things for marketing. Another example along the same lines, for video games at least, is how Nintendo of America watered down all of the original Final Fantasy games for publication in the United States. They changed the language to make it less "adult", they took out any references to sex or mature themes, etc. They also only published some of the Final Fantasy games (not all of them) and then renumbered them for consistency. When Sony acquired the licence more recently, however, they, I believe, were more true to the original Japanese versions.

What does all this mean? I don't know, really - but it seems to me that the word "art" loses a bit of its meaning when its form is manipulated and changed in order to make it more appealing to the masses. For instance, if back in the day, painters required producers to distribute their work, and the producer had demanded of some Renaissance painter that he make the subjects in his paintings "less nude" in order to appeal to a broader audience of European and American customers, and he complied out of necessity in order to get paid, would that have violated his artistic integrity? Would the paintings mean less, even if they were just as beautiful?

I'm not sure there is a right answer, but it certainly doesn't "feel right" to me. The artist should be able to do whatever he wants. When he changes the direction of his art just to please people paying the bills, I can't help but feel that, in some way, it really isn't art any longer.
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Unread postby Derek » 09 Mar 2006, 01:17

Yes, I recently played the rereleased version of FFIV and it was quite a bit different than my old SNES version of it(FFII). Videogames have been quite tame compared to films until very recently, and this has been achieved through obscene restrictions placed on the genre. Nice to hear someone angry about this besides myself.

I agree with what you're saying about art, but the metaphor may not be the best way of describing a problem with films in contemporary society.

I think we have digressed quite a bit off the main topic though. The question still bears asking: are recent films worse than films in the past? charleswatkins proposed an interesting way of trying to discern this, and I am still dealing with that(oh, college can be demanding :tired:), but does anyone else have a proposed manner in which we might be able to look into this further?
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Unread postby Corribus » 09 Mar 2006, 03:07

I'm sorry, I missed what charley suggested. Could you restate?
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Unread postby DaemianLucifer » 09 Mar 2006, 06:52

@Derek

Exactly why I used holly crap in te title.I dont remember a single recent hollywod movie that wasnt full of swearing.Even the kids movie have some(although they are being buttered)

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Unread postby Derek » 09 Mar 2006, 15:23

@Corribus

You could just go scroll up...but, I suppose I shall restate it for those who don't want to do that. Charles suggested that I look at every film that has won oscars, i.e. best picture, and compare the general quality of those films. I think everyone can agree that studios have always been pushing out bad movies, but are the 'good' films still of the same calibur as they used to be? I'm off school today, so I'll likely post what I find later today.

@DaemianLucifer

I don't really find swearing to be a problem in films. 'Pulp Fiction' is a fantastic film but it seems like all they do is swear...Maybe in kids films that could be a problem. I'm no parent, and so I don't go out and watch many kid films anymore.
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Unread postby Corribus » 09 Mar 2006, 15:41

Derek wrote: You could just go scroll up...but, I suppose I shall restate it for those who don't want to do that. Charles suggested that I look at every film that has won oscars, i.e. best picture, and compare the general quality of those films. I think everyone can agree that studios have always been pushing out bad movies, but are the 'good' films still of the same calibur as they used to be? I'm off school today, so I'll likely post what I find later today.
Well assuming for a second that those that win the Best Picture oscar in recent years are judged to be just as good as those that won it in yesteryears (I'm not sure how you quantify all of this...), that won't really answer your question. The original question was one of proportion.

Besides which I wouldn't really say the Oscars are the meter stick for movie excellence. The Oscars are mostly about politics and money, especially these days. Film quality takes a distance third, I'm afraid.

Judging art, insofar as you consider movies these days art (though we won't get into that again), is always a tricky business. A lot of it is "in the eye of the beholder". But let's say that there were X movies made in 1950 and nX movies made in 2000, where n is a large number. Don't you think it's safe to say that, while the number of "good" movies made in the two years may be the same, that quantity n is probably mostly "bad" movies? After all, the quantity n is due to the fact that movies have become a big business, and, on average, the priorities of art and business are somewhat different. Though business wants good products, because good products sell, they also have other priorities, so on average business-motivated movies will be of lower quality than non-business-motivated movies (i.e., art-motivated movies, political-motivated movies and recreational-motivated movies). Therefore, the average movie quality in 2000 would be lower than in 1950, even though the # of good movies each year hasn't decreased.

I guess that's all conjecture but it's the way I view it.
"What men are poets who can speak of Jupiter if he were like a man, but if he is an immense spinning sphere of methane and ammonia must be silent?" - Richard P. Feynman

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DaemianLucifer
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Unread postby DaemianLucifer » 10 Mar 2006, 05:58

Derek wrote:@DaemianLucifer

I don't really find swearing to be a problem in films. 'Pulp Fiction' is a fantastic film but it seems like all they do is swear...Maybe in kids films that could be a problem. I'm no parent, and so I don't go out and watch many kid films anymore.
Its not a problem when a film has a street theme were swearing is part of a slang.But youll find swearing in every single hollywood movie.Imagine this:a movie about a happy rich(snoobish) familly,that is really strict when it comes to image it leaves.There is no place for bad language in this movie,right?Wrong!There will be at least one scene where a kid will say something licke f***,then get grounded,folowed by "Holly s***,where did he learn such a language?".This scene will have nothing to do with the rest of the movie,and wont be mentioned anywhere else.It is there just so they can add some bad language,since we all know it is cool. :disagree: :disagree:

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Unread postby Derek » 10 Mar 2006, 20:43

Corribus wrote:Well assuming for a second that those that win the Best Picture oscar in recent years are judged to be just as good as those that won it in yesteryears (I'm not sure how you quantify all of this...), that won't really answer your question. The original question was one of proportion.

Besides which I wouldn't really say the Oscars are the meter stick for movie excellence. The Oscars are mostly about politics and money, especially these days. Film quality takes a distance third, I'm afraid.

Judging art, insofar as you consider movies these days art (though we won't get into that again), is always a tricky business. A lot of it is "in the eye of the beholder". But let's say that there were X movies made in 1950 and nX movies made in 2000, where n is a large number. Don't you think it's safe to say that, while the number of "good" movies made in the two years may be the same, that quantity n is probably mostly "bad" movies? After all, the quantity n is due to the fact that movies have become a big business, and, on average, the priorities of art and business are somewhat different. Though business wants good products, because good products sell, they also have other priorities, so on average business-motivated movies will be of lower quality than non-business-motivated movies (i.e., art-motivated movies, political-motivated movies and recreational-motivated movies). Therefore, the average movie quality in 2000 would be lower than in 1950, even though the # of good movies each year hasn't decreased.

I guess that's all conjecture but it's the way I view it.
Are you implying that 'King Kong' is a better film than 'Capote' or 'Crash'? Or is it just politics that made the big ape lose?

I understand what you're trying to say about films, but let us not forget the 'Corman quickies' of yesteryear. He was somehow able to film entire movies in less than a week, and that was way faster than how things are done now. He is not the norm, of course, but he does speak for an age in which it was much easier for films to be made(at least the bad ones anyways). Here's the way I see it: it seems that most people are complaining about the quality of films decreasing, but they are primarily using action films(Zorro and the like) as their prime justification. Those films, due to the lower special effects, were easier to make back in the day. Wouldn't that necesarily imply that there were more of them made then? Movies really boomed around the mid of last century, and it would seem to me that there would have to be more there than there are now.

@DaemianLucifer
Certainly random conjecture is the backbone of this discussion, but you really now...not ever Hollywood film is like that. And even if they were, what would it matter? Swearing doesn't just make a film worse, if anything I would be upset if the characters did not speak in manners that would make them seem realistic. You could point me in the direction of a film that does just have token swearing in it, but I cannot recall a time when I did not think that the swearing in a film was justified and relevant to the scene at hand.
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