New Devil teleport-far Mod!

[Minmaster]

if you dont mind vision lets try to be grown ups. from reading this thread and the other one where you give him crap for credit, i think the amount of anger you show is not warranted. why not say things nicely instead of being so mean? anyways, i also think devil is slow but im keeping my game vanilla until they make any changes official. its been already said that they will keep patching to balance the game more.

ps. i'd like to commend wolfshanze for keeping his cool.

[DaemianLucifer]

What about sprites? They fly... why can they not have the entire battlefield (like they did in h2 and I -think- h3)?

Your answer, based on previous posts, would be "they are not "big" creatures."

Exactly.It is the same reason a mosquito cannot outfly an eagle,or an ant cannot outran a man.

Making devils able to hit anything on the entire battlefield because they teleport is flawed, just like allowing angels or sprites access because they fly is flawed.

Why is it flawed?Have you tried it?Have you done extensive testing so you know for sure its flawed?And Im sure that if nival decided that devils should be able to cross the single map youd play a different tune.Thats just plain dumb.Just because theyve produced the game doesnt mean that they know how to perfectly balance it.

The separation of initiative and speed allows for a much wider and more dynamic range of movement (because higher initiative means you move more often). Pushing a unit into THE highest movement simply because they "teleport" would break that "mechanism" of the game, whether they have lower HP or not...

Why?If the speed and initiative are separated,how is it then that increasing one breaks the other?The devils would still be acting way slower than sprites.While sprites could act twice,or maybe thrice,the devils would still act just once.And that is quite logical,considering the size.

which brings me to another point:

Creature - Att - Def - Hp - Upg - Att - Def - HP
Devils - 27 - 25 - 166 - ArchDevils - 31 - 29 - 199
Angels - 27 - 27 - 180 - ArchAngels - 31 - 31 - 220
Green Drag - 27 - 25 - 200 - Emerald - 31 - 27 - 200
Colossus - 27 - 27 - 175 Titan - 30 - 30 - 190
Shadow Drag - 25 - 24 - 200 - Black - 30 - 30 - 240
Bone Drag - 27 - 28 - 150 Spectral - 30 - 28 - 160

Devils (and Arch Devils) are in-line with all other level 7 creatures. The game, as it is, is fairly well balanced to begin with. Sure, there will be balance changes in patches, but the game as a whole is much better balance wise than just about any other Heroes game was upon initial release

Oh sure,bring just the three stats of all.If we watched just attack,defense and HP in HIII angels wouldnt seem like they are way stronger than devils,and they are(because of their speed and resurrection).

[asandir]

hear hear DL

[Gaidal Cain]

Why is it flawed?Have you tried it?Have you done extensive testing so you know for sure its flawed?And Im sure that if nival decided that devils should be able to cross the single map youd play a different tune.Thats just plain dumb.Just because theyve produced the game doesnt mean that they know how to perfectly balance it.

I for one would not like that those who complains about something are assumed to be right, and those who wants to keep things "as is" would be the ones to prove that their way is better. If someone wishes to change something, they're the ones that should be able to show why the current way is bad.

From what I've seen of the Devils, they're not quite as strong as the rest of the level 7:s. The gap isn't terrible though, and I'm not sure that Inferno as a whole would need the boost.

[DaemianLucifer]

I for one would not like that those who complains about something are assumed to be right, and those who wants to keep things "as is" would be the ones to prove that their way is better. If someone wishes to change something, they're the ones that should be able to show why the current way is bad.

Its the majority that should be assumed to be right,and the majority thinks the devils are weaker then the rest(from what Im seeing it seems like that,I might be wrong though).

[asandir]

i'm gonna try it, as see for myself if it adds a heap to the inferno troops, but i think i will cap the devil at 8 and the arch devil at 9

[Gaidal Cain]

Its the majority that should be assumed to be right,and the majority thinks the devils are weaker then the rest(from what Im seeing it seems like that,I might be wrong though).

Nope. The majority can be wrong. It's the ones who has the capability to make an informed decision that should be assumed to be right, and the majority doesn't right now as far as I'm concerned. In fact, I'm not sure if anyone has that capability right now.

[DaemianLucifer]

Nope. The majority can be wrong. It's the ones who has the capability to make an informed decision that should be assumed to be right, and the majority doesn't right now as far as I'm concerned. In fact, I'm not sure if anyone has that capability right now.

Oh sure,we that have tried at least one heroes game before,and that followed the development of HV,we that have played some other strategy games besides heroes,both turn based and real time,havent got the capability to make an informed decision.

[Gaidal Cain]

Oh sure,we that have tried at least one heroes game before,and that followed the development of HV,we that have played some other strategy games besides heroes,both turn based and real time,havent got the capability to make an informed decision.

Yup, that's about it. Because you haven't played Inferno, in H5, on several maps with several different opponents.

[DaemianLucifer]

Yup, that's about it. Because you haven't played Inferno, in H5, on several maps with several different opponents.

And how do you know that?You have a spyware in our computers?

[Orfinn]

Whatta thread
Make up and shake hands

Anyway Im sure the mod brings joy to most fans who crtisise and are a bit dissapointed (including me) by the devils.
And its up to the one person to decide if he wants to use the mod or not. Well if it gets a bit unbalanced with the devilmod Im sure they who wanted to use it will notice, then the mod need to be tweaked thus improve the balance even more.

I will download every tasty mod there that seems interesting and useful but will NOT use them if the official patches, expansions can do it first by fixing the balancing issues etc.

IMO the devils are a tad weaker than Im used to, but its a nice feature that they can summon pit lords. It dosent hurt me if the devils are mostly used as support units, can get used to it. It all depends ofcourse, size of map, opponent, skill choices, player style. Alot need to be considered to see if the devils are balanced up against creatures of the same lvl and lower before it can get balanced to its fullest.

[Revenged]

Heheh...I think Vision has a point here.

Of course, everyone is free to do what they please to their own games, but as for those wanting to play a lot of MP, the common opinion will have an effect.

If majority just accepts the idea that "Devils are too slow", then even those people who disagree will have to adopt, because most games will be played at that setting. Just as he said earlier: "no Necropolis", "no Hill Forts" etc.

As I understand it, a discussion is what he wants.

[Wolfshanze]

Holy crap.

How did I miss that post. Boy, I am about to feel like a turd....

I am sorry for thinking I was the first to do something (in this thread) for you for this mod. I did not see the second post, and ....

I feel like a turd.

No problemo. I made the mod myself using the tips suggested by Arstahd... I've been making mods, maps, scenarios and databases for games since the mid-90s... I just hadn't really dug into HOMM5 to see if it was something I myself could easily mod. My efforts completely overhauling the turn-based strategy WWII game Pacific General certainly took a lot more work then a simple Devil speed bump... though initially I did not know where to look or how to do it.

Anyways, back to my Devil-Mod, I have the personal belief (my belief, I know it's not everyone else's), that the Devils are too slow and they have NOTHING that stands-out from the other Level-7s that makes them special. Angels have more hit points and can resurect the dead... Dragons have more hit points, are faster and can breath fire. Titans can kill from the opposite side of the map without risking harm to themselves. Devils have the near-useless Pit Lord ability which can't even be used until there are dead stacks on the map... frankly, the Angels have a much better ability.

Anyways, my personal effort was to give the Devils SOMETHING to bring them on-par with the "big three"... Angels, Dragons and Titans, and at the same time keep it "in spirit" of former Heroes games... namely, the long-distance teleport.

They still can't teleport ANYWHERE... they're as-fast or slightly faster then Dragons with my mod in reaching places... they still have fewer hit points then Dragons and don't have flame breath, so if you ask me, this makes Devils either slightly less powerful or at-best equal to Dragons with my speed-boost mod.

If you don't like it, by all means, don't use it! If you'd like to give it a try... please do!

http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepage ... vilmod.pak

[Gaidal Cain]

And how do you know that?You have a spyware in our computers?

You, as in DL, might have, but you're not going to convince me that "the majority" has. My guess is that they've reached the third Inferno map and just assumed that Inferno is weak. I wonder what the sentiment had been if the Sylvan campaign had come before the Inferno one.

[DaemianLucifer]

You, as in DL, might have, but you're not going to convince me that "the majority" has. My guess is that they've reached the third Inferno map and just assumed that Inferno is weak. I wonder what the sentiment had been if the Sylvan campaign had come before the Inferno one.

Well some did participate in the beta,so they couldve tried all of the options.Sure,things did change,but mostly it were bug fixes.

[asandir]

i modded my devils and archdevils to speed 8 and 9 respectively .... it works well

doesn't seem too unbalanced, but just gives a boost - prolly a bit early to be sure, will have to fight some inferno troops with sylvan to see how much balance has been altered ...