Heroes 3: Favorite Barbarian

[Bimbasto]

Voted for Shiva. The reason the same as ThunderTitan's

[Muszka]

@JJ
I understand you fully, but for my playing style it's a two-edged sword. I know how much problem can be with that, but still I like the way it is.

On the other side I don't see why scouting is so much bad for you guys? For me it's better than Ballistics and Resistance. Seeing something what I couldn't have see without it sometimes wins the map.

[Jolly Joker]

Let's assume for a moment that Scouting was indeed useful - you see somthing that you wouldn't have without in that turn and that it was important. Since the map keeps being discovered once you have it discovered it's the same as if Logistics would work only on ways you haven't trod already which would be bad.

If you indeed compare Souting with Logistics you'll see that the added MPs will easily make up for the shorter viewing radius - which is true everywhere, not only when venturing in dark territory.

Now, this assumes that Scouting is useful. In fact it's a lot more useful for a SECONDARY - a SCOUT.

I already explained Resistance. There is nothing better for a Stronghold player than resisting a Blind spell on the Behemoths - or an opponent starting with Mass Slow, only to see that your Birds, Behemoths, Raiders or Cyclopses resist, allowing you to counter early with mass haste and undo the opponent's plans.

Resistance is an insurance against heavy magic - without it you'll be on the defensive magically most of the time.

[Muszka]

I can make assumptions as well:
-let's assume, that I'm on my way to a gold mine, but I spot an enemy town and I can reach it in the respective day, so the enemy hero can't get inside.
Or let's assume that I'm on march and I search desperately for an exit, and with scouting I can find it 3-4 days before.
But those are only assumptions. I won't base my skill picking on them. But I do on my experience, and that tells me that sometimes (at least L-sized maps) Scouting may provide useful.
As for resistance, I said my words too. I won't base my life on a skill that may or may not kick in, and that's Luck or Resistance, even Leadership I take only if I know that I'll have mixed stacks. I take a tactics better, and a Water Magic, so I move my units onward and if get Blind, I make sure that I can cure it. What concerns mass slow, I try to achieve to be the first striker in the fight.

But to be on topic, when I choose a hero I do it for two reasons, one is the speciality, which is most probably not a unit (which might die so my hero's speciality is wasted), also I take heroes whom speciality evolves over time. The other reason is the skill of the hero, where is important, not to have useless skills such as scholar or eagle eye.

[Jolly Joker]

I have no intention to argue with you about your preferred gaming style. However, you shouldn't support them with false points.

Scouting IS useful - for a secondary hero, that's what they are for. However:

As for resistance, I said my words too. I won't base my life on a skill that may or may not kick in, and that's Luck or Resistance, even Leadership

you don't base your life on it. Resistance differs from Luck or Leadership: Luck and Leadership will give you an extra in OFFENSE (the Sylvans in H5 are an excellent example of how you can base a play on it, though), and to plan on OFFENSE I agree with you: even though it can't hurt to have it, since you cannot base a plan on it, it's a skill I would take only when the alternative would be a useless skill.
Resistance is different, though: it influences something you have no control over whatsoever: the OPPONENT's plans. As you yourself said: you don't like to cast spells on an opponent BECAUSE that might be resisted - you prefer to cast spells on your own troops. Conversely, if you DON'T have Resistance the opponent can cast spells on you KNOWING they will work. Now, let's say YOU play against ME. MY hero has REsistance, YOURS has not. The difference is now that YOU will have to be content to cast spells on your own troops - (AND A BARBARIAN CAN'T LEARN WATER MAGIC!) - while I can pick the best possible spell and can cast either on my own troops or on yours. So who has the advantage here?
As I said, Resistance is something of an insurance. You don't bet your life on it - you take it to deny the opponent complete magic planning freedom - which in my opinion is extremely important.

Lastly, the creature specials do evolve over time as well, I seem to remember. I agree, though, that most general specials like Hack's or Dessa's are better.

[arturchix]

Wasn’t there a barbarian hero Dessa that specializes in logistics? All of the logistics specialists are my favorite heroes, doesn’t matter which faction.

[Jolly Joker]

She's a Battle Mage.

[HodgePodge]

Voted: Crag Hack

For a Barbarian, that Offense Specialty is just the best.

[darknessfood]

Crack is a barbarian, when the offence skill get's bigg, so does the damage!

[Yurian Stonebow]

I'd like to point out that the purpose of this poll is to answer the simple question "select your favourite Barbarian hero out of the non-campaign heroes listed here in this poll". The poll is not about the scientifically best explained argument about the various heroes' strengths and weaknesses. Of course no-one said we couldn't create a poll with those limitations on.
But it would be a different poll altogether.

Anyway, I hold to my statement that in my most humble opinion, my favourite Barbarian hero is Crag Hack because I like his specialty, traits of character as seen on his SoD campaigns and the fact that he begins with advanced Offense, which indeed leaves 7 skill slots available for perfectioning your general.

I do not see it as a disadvantage to start with one secondary skill. Why?
Simple mathematics show quite indisputably that 8-1=7, and so we can use pure logic to see that we have more options left to choose from. We may be lucky and get all the skills we ever wished for or then we could suffer from Misfortune and have to sooner or later face a situation where we are offered choice between two not so great skills.

All this tells me about complex system where in itself mathematic calculations and pure random generator both interact with one another. I see it as a positive element that enriches the gaming experience. To me, this works to increase replayability and not some "bad karma".

To each his own.




Yurian

[UndeadHalfOrc]

For the record, I may have titled the polls "favorite", but I may have titled it "best" too, I actually enjoy well-formulated arguments, this often leads to debates going deep into the innards of game algorithms and statistics, and as a game modder, I tend to enjoy reading those

[Jolly Joker]

I'd like to point out that the purpose of this poll is to answer the simple question "select your favourite Barbarian hero out of the non-campaign heroes listed here in this poll".

Anyway, I hold to my statement that in my most humble opinion, my favourite Barbarian hero is Crag Hack because I like his specialty, traits of character as seen on his SoD campaigns and the fact that he begins with advanced Offense, which indeed leaves 7 skill slots available for perfectioning your general.

Nothing to argue so far.

I do not see it as a disadvantage to start with one secondary skill. Why?
Simple mathematics show quite indisputably that 8-1=7, and so we can use pure logic to see that we have more options left to choose from. Yurian

This, however, is simply and plainly just as wrong as the other sentence I quoted from you. Why? I'll try to explain ist yet again:

Skill picking in H3 works the following way: you get offered:
1) a skill your hero already has
2) a new skill

if all skills the hero has are on expert then TWO new skills are offered.

For someone like Hack this means the following: on your first level-up you are offered Expert Offense (the only already owned skill) and Basic New Skill. If this Basic New skill is UNWELCOME, you will pick Expert Offense. In this case your SECOND level-up will present you a choice between a Basic New Skill and a Basic New skill. It's entirely possible that these two are BOTH unwelcome, but you will have to still pick one.

Example: 1st lvl-up: Expert Offense or Basic Ballistics -> Expert offense
2nd lvl-up: Basic Ballistics or Basic Scouting -> Basic Ballistics (forced)

Note that at this stage you have still only TWO safe level-ups.

Now compare this with a hero starting out with 2 Basic welcome skills. Here, instead of only ONE "safe" level-up you have FOUR of them, until you will be presented the pick between 2 New Skills.

Example:
1st level-up: Advanced Offense or Basic Ballistics -> Advanced Offense
2nd level-up: Expert Offense or Basic Ballistics -> Expert Offense
3rd level-up: Advanced Tactics or Basic Logistics -> Basic Logistics

Which will bring your total of "safe" level-ups to 4 again.

You can safely say that in case of a hero type like Craig Hack your first level-up doesn't show up a good new one chances are that your hero will not develop the way you want it.

Chances are ALOT better for heroes starting with two skills to develop fine.

This has nothing to do with likings, it's just plain probabilities.

[Yurian Stonebow]

@JJ

Let me quote myself:

"to each his own"




Yurian



EDIT: I also like Ignatius even if he starts with two skills

[Jolly Joker]

Well you can LIKE whatever you want. However, if your reasoning is getting facts wrong, I point that out.

FACT is, it's more difficult to make Hack the hero you want him to be than a hero starting with two skills.

If you like him BECAUSE of that or DESPITE of that, fine.

If you like him because you think it's easier, you are wrong.

[Yurian Stonebow]

@JJ


The poll was about favourite Barbarian hero, right? And thinking of what defines the word "favourite", it seems to be about personal opinion. Oh well. When I used the term "like" as in "I like", I may have been talking about having personal fondness to some heroes or something in general.
Which in itself is based on a feeling, just as the poll's title suggest and not to scientific cold logic.

I must obviously be quite blind to see the facts because people have to point them out to me by using capital letters.




Yurian

[Jolly Joker]

Yurian, you said:

... Mr. Hack has 7 skill slots left which means that you have more options to go with, higher chance to build up your favourite kind of general.

This is plain wrong, very clear and very simple and no matter what this poll is about. In fact, chances are a lot higher that you will be forced to pick an unwelcome skill than they are with the standard hero starting with two basic skills.

That mistake was what I pointed out, not more, not less. You may like it that way, but it is by no means an advantage. In fact it's a disadvantage. Maybe you like the challenge, maybe it wasn't quite clear to you, I don't know. It shouldn't influence whether you like Craig or not. As I said, I was just pointing out an error.

[BigThingWithHolesInIt]

So to summarize,
Hero with two good skills > hero with one good skill on Advanced > hero with one good and one bad skill > hero with a bad skill on Advanced > hero with two bad skills

Or:
Cyra > Astral > Serena > Thane > Piquedram

On a more on-topic note though, I fired up the Hack and Slash campaign (SoD) again and look how Hack is turning out! Three magic schools and still two slots left!

[Gaidal Cain]

On a more on-topic note though, I fired up the Hack and Slash campaign (SoD) again and look how Hack is turning out! Three magic schools and still two slots left!

Seems like a good illustration of what JJ was saying. Fire magic is pretty much wasted on someone who doesn't have decent amounts of mana. Earth and Air works much better.

[BigThingWithHolesInIt]

On a more on-topic note though, I fired up the Hack and Slash campaign (SoD) again and look how Hack is turning out! Three magic schools and still two slots left!

Seems like a good illustration of what JJ was saying. Fire magic is pretty much wasted on someone who doesn't have decent amounts of mana. Earth and Air works much better.

I believe the alternative was First Aid.
Mass Bloodlust and Curse will certainly come in handy though, and Expert Blind is interesting for the Wolf Raiders. I wouldn't call it a wasted slot by any means.

[Muszka]

Seems like a good illustration of what JJ was saying. Fire magic is pretty much wasted on someone who doesn't have decent amounts of mana. Earth and Air works much better.

An expert Blind can help you to leave the battlefield without casuelties, or an expert curse makes though battles easier. With some luck, a berserker spell (only one cast) can turn many battles for you. So I would still pick fire magic over many(most) might skills.

@Yurian
Although you are right that this is a "favorite poll", after running many test/playing many games with Mr. Hack you'll see that JJ spoke the truth, that starting with a skill on advanced gives some unsecureness for the first 2-4 lvlups. I know I always had such a feeling when playing with Crag, but just as you I will gladly take such a risk just about anytime, if I receive an ever-growing damage in place of it.

@JJ
This is going off-topic so I try to keep it short.
First I wouldn't mess the H5 luck with the H3 luck, since those are two different things. In H3 you get 4,1 % chance of trigger per point of luck. That can hardly reach 50%, in fact it won't reach it ever. In H5 it has 10% per point of luck and that can easily reach 50%. Plus the H3 luck doesn't doubles the damage, instead it does a little over the max damage without bless, and does about +25-50% damage with bless. The H5 one works perfectly.
Resistance - Yes it's great for you if my mass slow fails on one of your faster units, yes you are in advantage if my Blind fails on your high lvl-unit stack, yes you can mess up my plans if any important spell fails, but what if doesn't, the odds are in my favor (80% for your 20%), what if it doesn't blocks a spell in the first 2-3 rounds? What if my mass slow fails on your orcs only, or on other slow unit? Plus Resistance has almost no use against neutrals.

Please don't get me wrong, I admit that can provoke surprises and even save my back, and even better if for example I get a Surcoat of Counterprize or a Boots of Polarity, next to my resistance> Not to mention if I play Thorgrim, but if my enemy has a decent army and casts a few offensive spell I can throw away my resistance, it won't to any good.