Favourite/Least favourite dungeon?

[Bandobras Took]

not to mention the rewards are not worth the time spent.

That describes every dungeon in MMVI for me.

MMVII:
Least Favorite: The Wizard School when trying to get the Scroll of Waves for the Ninja promotion. What a pain.

Most Favorite: Tunnels to Eofol. The first time you completely clear that dungeon, your feel like you've accomplished something.

MMVIII:
Least favorite: Korbu's tomb. Sticking all those Efreet Lords in there at that stage of the game is just cruel to people trying to promote their vampires.

Most Favorite: Plane of Earth. Twisty with lots of gemstones.

[HodgePodge]

… MMVIII:
Least favorite: Korbu's tomb. Sticking all those Efreet Lords in there at that stage of the game is just cruel to people trying to promote their vampires.

Most Favorite: Plane of Earth. Twisty with lots of gemstones.

Not to mention that hideously huge coffin you have to make room for in your inventory.

[CoffeeGnome]

Not to mention that hideously huge coffin you have to make room for in your inventory.

Yea, try making room for this thing in single-character mode. Forget about getting any bounty for whatever naga hides you may also attain.

[accabear]

Lair of the Wolf from MM6. Hate that place. Total pain in the ass to clear out. And those greater wolfweres don't help with their instant knockout attacks and fast movement plus the stupid ambush whenever you walk through that certain room that connects the areas. One day I am going to go find the person from 3DO who designed that dungeon and headbutt him in the face.

[PhoenixReborn]

Lair of the Wolf from MM6.

Yeah, it was a tough one to clear...but I found the atmosphere to be well done.

[Kareeah Indaga]

Least favorite: Korbu's tomb. Sticking all those Efreet Lords in there at that stage of the game is just cruel to people trying to promote their vampires.

Hssst. Use Invisibility. Run really fast. Laugh as the Spark traps slowly wipe them out, while they float around, clueless.

As for the Sarcophgus--carry it on your curser if all else fails. That's what I do when I run out of pack space before I get to a shop...

IIRC Agar's Lab has a Ring of Power (+5 Level!) in it.

[HodgePodge]

... IIRC Agar's Lab has a Ring of Power (+5 Level!) in it.

Oooooh, I don't remember that Ring. Now I have to go back and find it.

Lair of the Wolf from MM6. Hate that place.

Yeah, Lair of the Wolf is a tough dungeon for a medium level player but it's loads of fun. Be sure to have Town Portal & Lloyd's Beacon so you can get healed and return to defeat all those Werewolves. While you're at it, be sure to get as many extra experience points as possible by fighting those returnable monsters.

[accabear]

Lair of the Wolf from MM6. Hate that place.

Yeah, Lair of the Wolf is a tough dungeon for a medium level player but it's loads of fun. Be sure to have Town Portal & Lloyd's Beacon so you can get healed and return to defeat all those Werewolves. While you're at it, be sure to get as many extra experience points as possible by fighting those returnable monsters.

I am still going to find the developer and headbutt him...

[Bandobras Took]

Least favorite: Korbu's tomb. Sticking all those Efreet Lords in there at that stage of the game is just cruel to people trying to promote their vampires.

Hssst. Use Invisibility. Run really fast. Laugh as the Spark traps slowly wipe them out, while they float around, clueless.

Any fool can beat the game with an invisibility crutch. It's like saying "The game is easy; put Cauri and a Dragon in your party!"

[Kareeah Indaga]

Any fool can beat the game with an invisibility crutch. It's like saying "The game is easy; put Cauri and a Dragon in your party!"

Hey, if you want to keep smacking your head into the door because you refuse to open it, go ahead. But don't go blaming your stubborness and lack of finesse on me.

[Bandobras Took]

Any fool can beat the game with an invisibility crutch. It's like saying "The game is easy; put Cauri and a Dragon in your party!"

Hey, if you want to keep smacking your head into the door because you refuse to open it, go ahead. But don't go blaming your stubborness and lack of finesse on me.

Finesse is beating the game without invisibility.

[arturchix]

Funny that when I was playing MM8 for the first time (and it was my first M&M game), I was using invisibility all the time, avoiding battles. Now I use it only in various peasant or solo games.

[Kareeah Indaga]

Finesse is beating the game without invisibility.

(Says the guy who never beat MMVI. )

News flash, Bandobras; that's not finesse, that's hack-and-slash.

On the contrary, it takes skill and patience to slip past monsters in tight corridors. Murdering everything in sight? Not so much, just kill everything you see that isn't a green dot then level up as high as you can go, rinse and repeat. Find yourself dying too often? Go somewhere else, kill everything there, then come back with more levels and better equipment.

Anyone can do that. Not everyone can sneak unnoticed past Speakers for the Dead in Castle Moulder, steal the Lich Jars and leave without anyone finding out until it's far, far too late. Additionally it requires more skill because you deprive yourself of resources (gold, XP, items) from the monsters you aren't slaying, instead of allowing you to brute-force your way through EVERYTHING.

[Avonu]

Anyone can do that. Not everyone can sneak unnoticed past Speakers for the Dead in Castle Moulder, steal the Lich Jars and leave without anyone finding out until it's far, far too late. Additionally it requires more skill because you deprive yourself of resources (gold, XP, items) from the monsters you aren't slaying, instead of allowing you to brute-force your way through EVERYTHING.

Not anyone can clear Pit or Eeofol tunnels with 25-th level characters - it is easy to cast Invisibility and sneak behind Speakers of th Dead or Behemoths (you only need a little patience). BTW - try mind trick (berserk) on Behemoths or other creatures and have a good fun.
But yes, it is more fun to sneak in Catle Gryphonheart or Markham's Manor and steal your quest items and loot chest or barrels than simple kill anyone at sight.

[HodgePodge]

Finesse is beating the game without invisibility.

(Says the guy who never beat MMVI. )

News flash, Bandobras; that's not finesse, that's hack-and-slash.

On the contrary, it takes skill and patience to slip past monsters in tight corridors. Murdering everything in sight? Not so much, just kill everything you see that isn't a green dot then level up as high as you can go, rinse and repeat. Find yourself dying too often? Go somewhere else, kill everything there, then come back with more levels and better equipment.

Anyone can do that. Not everyone can sneak unnoticed past Speakers for the Dead in Castle Moulder, steal the Lich Jars and leave without anyone finding out until it's far, far too late. Additionally it requires more skill because you deprive yourself of resources (gold, XP, items) from the monsters you aren't slaying, instead of allowing you to brute-force your way through EVERYTHING.

I agree. I love sneaking past those huge Titans & Dragons in the Titan Stronghold. It's way more challenging than just whacking your way through this dungeon. And Invisibility is one of the must-have spells before I even enter the Pit.

[Bandobras Took]

Finesse is beating the game without invisibility.

(Says the guy who never beat MMVI. )

News flash, Bandobras; that's not finesse, that's hack-and-slash.

That's because MMVI is unutterably boring. Those dungeons could be completely devoid of monsters and I still wouldn't be able to force myself through the game.

On the contrary, it takes skill and patience to slip past monsters in tight corridors. Murdering everything in sight? Not so much, just kill everything you see that isn't a green dot then level up as high as you can go, rinse and repeat. Find yourself dying too often? Go somewhere else, kill everything there, then come back with more levels and better equipment.

I don't die.

Anyone can do that. Not everyone can sneak unnoticed past Speakers for the Dead in Castle Moulder, steal the Lich Jars and leave without anyone finding out until it's far, far too late. Additionally it requires more skill because you deprive yourself of resources (gold, XP, items) from the monsters you aren't slaying, instead of allowing you to brute-force your way through EVERYTHING.

On the contrary, it was my impression that everyone goes for Invisibility their first time through. How easy is the all-Knight game compared to the all-Wizard game? That should be a good indication of which takes more skill.

[Kareeah Indaga]

That's because MMVI is unutterably boring. Those dungeons could be completely devoid of monsters and I still wouldn't be able to force myself through the game.

See? You lack the patience and persistance need to fully apreciate the skill required to use Invisibility.

I don't die.

Sure you don't. You just reload a lot after watching a short little cinema.

On the contrary, it was my impression that everyone goes for Invisibility their first time through.

I didn't. I hacked through Escaton's crystal at level 80-something on my first run.

How easy is the all-Knight game compared to the all-Wizard game? That should be a good indication of which takes more skill.

Yeah...if you want to test the utility of ALL spells vs. the utility of hitting things with sharp objects. Since Knights can't (without editing anyway ) learn Pain Reflection/Hour of Power, Acid Burst, Mass Distortion, Haste, the Resistances, Stoneskin, Divine Intervention...yeah, intelligent use of all four Elemental schools plus Light and/or Dark magic means those poor Knights are going down.

Oh, and let's not forget a significantly better Alchemy skill...giving access to spells like Preservation, Cure Poison, Cure Disease etc...that the Sorcerer class + promotions couldn't normally learn as spells. You may need to stock up on regents but with Town Portal and shops that restock regularly that isn't exactly hard...and with decent catalasts you get durations stretching into several hours at a relatively low level.

Now, if you wanted to test how 'easy' Invisibility alone makes the game, you'd have to make a party of Sorcerers (or Druids, or other class that can learn Master level Air magic and therefore Invisibility) who all get Air magic and boost it up to Master and use no other spells but Invisibility, and never use Alchemy except to the level it can be used by Knights, then compare that to your party of Knights.

[CoffeeGnome]

First of all I am not taking either side because both sides have their strengths and weaknesses to these arguments over style of play. But my point is that yes learning how to use Invisibility is a skill all in its own for the player to learn and this is why I am thankfull that MM7 & MM8 are not multi player because one can only imagine how embarrasing it would be for two invisible parties to bump into each other and expose each other in a room full of titans and dragons (oops!) Just as much as it is a players skill to learn all of the benefits and weaknesses to learning all of the weapon skills (rate of attack, other various effects, ect.)
However the fact that they took away invisibility in MM9 is one of the things that I feel that made this installment the most fun. To waste all of those great dungeons by just sneaking my way through them would have meant I would have missed most of what made this version so fun.

[Kareeah Indaga]

one can only imagine how embarrasing it would be for two invisible parties to bump into each other and expose each other in a room full of titans and dragons (oops!).

LOL! Fortunately that's what Wizard eye is for.

However the fact that they took away invisibility in MM9 is one of the things that I feel that made this installment the most fun. To waste all of those great dungeons by just sneaking my way through them would have meant I would have missed most of what made this version so fun.

Now, for me it was the opposite--because of the low respawn times (and horrible controls and cheating pauses for the monsters and...), I missed Invis. and (especially!) Fly terribly--'WHAT? I have to fight all these Wolves and Yetis AGAIN? I just killed them a week ago! I just want to get to the dungeon with the Tree statue so I can get promoted to Priest!' As for the exploring--I still do that, Invisibility or no. It's just riskier, because the monsters aren't dead so if the spell runs out, I'm screwed. And the traps and such don't care if you're invisible, so I have to sidestep those in addition to the mosters. And take loads of damage from chest traps too, if my Trap Disarmer isn't up to snuff (Telekinesis is a no-go since that will break Invisibility).

[Bandobras Took]

That's because MMVI is unutterably boring. Those dungeons could be completely devoid of monsters and I still wouldn't be able to force myself through the game.

See? You lack the patience and persistance need to fully apreciate the skill required to use Invisibility.

Er . . . no. I lack the patience and persistence to continue in the face of hours devoid of anything remotely resembling interesting world-building/plot points. I've done the Invisibility route in MM7 and MM8 -- several times. It doesn't require nearly so much effort, planning, or skill as fighting your way through each dungeon.

I don't die.

Sure you don't. You just reload a lot after watching a short little cinema.

No, I make certain I'm prepared for a dungeon before going in.

Now, if you wanted to test how 'easy' Invisibility alone makes the game, you'd have to make a party of Sorcerers (or Druids, or other class that can learn Master level Air magic and therefore Invisibility) who all get Air magic and boost it up to Master and use no other spells but Invisibility, and never use Alchemy except to the level it can be used by Knights, then compare that to your party of Knights.

All right, let's compare a few dungeons according to these rules.

1) Titan's Stronghold. No Blood Titans eradicate the invisible party. Knight party potentially dies in 4 hits.
2) Walls of Mist. Knights get hit right and left and can't attack anything. Nothing attacks Invisible party.
3) Tunnels to Eofol. Knights get paralyzed/stoned. Medusae don't even attack Invisible party.
4) Minotaur Lords instant-kill Knights. Minotaur Lords don't attack Invisible party.
5) Watchtower 6. Invisible party lowers counterweight without taking any damage. Knights have to deal with Rock Blasts and Dragon's Breath.

I could go on, but in all cases where Invisbility is available, the Invisible party has the easier time of it.