Holly wood or holly crap?

Derek · Unread postby **Derek** » 24 Apr 2006, 15:02

When I think of films that have caused a huge upset, even in audiences that normally are not a huge fan of *standard* movies, I think of Fight Club. I think in many ways this is sort of a central film to the debate over Hollywood going downhill in reason years. It does try to stay intelligent throughout the picture and it still attempts to keep the audience entertained with other things. I am curious to hear what others think about this film and what they think about the (supposed)downfall of Hollywood.

DaemianLucifer · Unread postby **DaemianLucifer** » 24 Apr 2006, 16:28

What?Fightclub is an excelent movie.It is actually one of the better movies that came from hollywood.Also,brad pit plays excelent lunatics,dont you think?(twelve monkeys)And edvard norton is one hell of an actor.

Orfinn · Unread postby **Orfinn** » 24 Apr 2006, 18:59

Bruce Almighty, thats an Holy Wood movie. Bruce really cracks me up when he messes with the news reporter, its hilarious every time

Derek · Unread postby **Derek** » 24 Apr 2006, 21:58

DaemianLucifer wrote:What?Fightclub is an excelent movie.It is actually one of the better movies that came from hollywood.Also,brad pit plays excelent lunatics,dont you think?(twelve monkeys)And edvard norton is one hell of an actor.

Could you explain in a bit more depth why it is a good movie? Certainly it is a unique film and it is from Hollywood, this is of course the reason that I bring it up.

ThunderTitan · Unread postby **ThunderTitan** » 24 Apr 2006, 22:00

I belive this belongs here:

Tycho wrote: The story for the first Silent Hill is what I would call "complex." It is not ready-made for the mass market. It is ambiguous in some ways. In short, it is the sort of story that a person like Roger Ebert might assume doesn't exist anywhere in gaming. This movie won't change his mind, because much of the subtlety and perhaps even the core ideas have either been stripped out or "seasoned" to appeal to the idiots they imagine will watch this thing. I say "idiots, etc." because this is a movie that feels the need to repeat two and three times what is really the most basic Goddamn information. There is no trust whatsoever in the viewing audience, which is to say you, aside from he absolute assurance that you will be snared by the carefully created mythology that this is "the faithful videogame translation."

Corribus · Unread postby **Corribus** » 24 Apr 2006, 22:01

Re: Fightclub: I thought it was OK. I never found it good enough to go out and buy, though.

DaemianLucifer · Unread postby **DaemianLucifer** » 24 Apr 2006, 23:25

Derek wrote:
DaemianLucifer wrote:What?Fightclub is an excelent movie.It is actually one of the better movies that came from hollywood.Also,brad pit plays excelent lunatics,dont you think?(twelve monkeys)And edvard norton is one hell of an actor.
Could you explain in a bit more depth why it is a good movie? Certainly it is a unique film and it is from Hollywood, this is of course the reason that I bring it up.

It has a very strange and disturbing perspective.Interesting story that unfolds in ways you could never imagine.Subtle commedy,which I find better then the plain one.Not a classic happy ending.And,of course,excelent madmen.

Gaidal Cain · Unread postby **Gaidal Cain** » 25 Apr 2006, 16:13

Mod Note: Discussion about Lord of the Rings etc. has been split off

Derek · Unread postby **Derek** » 25 Apr 2006, 17:45

DaemianLucifer wrote:It has a very strange and disturbing perspective.Interesting story that unfolds in ways you could never imagine.Subtle commedy,which I find better then the plain one.Not a classic happy ending.And,of course,excelent madmen.

But what is the point of the film? (if I may be so blunt) It tries to be intelligent with its social criticism, such as people rising up against the corporate structure, but then it comes back and insults the people that do that same thing. Such as the Fight Clubs that are started are referred to as franchises and the like. Does the film have a point in its existance, or is it just offering criticsim without a point?

DaemianLucifer · Unread postby **DaemianLucifer** » 25 Apr 2006, 17:55

Derek wrote:But what is the point of the film? (if I may be so blunt) It tries to be intelligent with its social criticism, such as people rising up against the corporate structure, but then it comes back and insults the people that do that same thing. Such as the Fight Clubs that are started are referred to as franchises and the like. Does the film have a point in its existance, or is it just offering criticsim without a point?

Just a critic of a modern society.But really,the main point of every movie is sheer entertainment.Im not sure lots of directors said:"The point of my new movie will be that and that".Its usually that they come with the idea and just write it.You should extract your own point from the movie.

Derek · Unread postby **Derek** » 25 Apr 2006, 18:46

DaemianLucifer wrote:Just a critic of a modern society.But really,the main point of every movie is sheer entertainment.Im not sure lots of directors said:"The point of my new movie will be that and that".Its usually that they come with the idea and just write it.You should extract your own point from the movie.

I know, I agree about the entertainment thing. But the film gets bogged down in its message, and that is why I inquired about it. The start of the film, wherein the lead keeps going from support group to support group, is very funny/entertaining. When the whole Fight Club is brought up then the messages start to get in the way...

The heavy handed nature of the film makes me think that the point of the film was the message rather than anything else in the movie. It just seems like social criticism was the main event here, which is a shame. It would have been a far better film if it stuck to one thing and one thing only rather than jumping around all over the place.

DaemianLucifer · Unread postby **DaemianLucifer** » 25 Apr 2006, 18:59

A movie can have a message and still be very good.Apocalypse now,for example.Or AI.Forest gump.12 monkeys.I like movies like this that are both entertaining and make you think about the world.

Derek · Unread postby **Derek** » 25 Apr 2006, 19:01

DaemianLucifer wrote:A movie can have a message and still be very good.Apocalypse now,for example.Or AI.Forest gump.12 monkeys.I like movies like this that are both entertaining and make you think about the world.

Okay fine, messages in films are a good thing, but wouldn't one think that Fight Club could have made its message a bit clearer? What is it? Often times it seems like the film contradicts its own message in the film...youare more than welcome to explain this to me.

DaemianLucifer · Unread postby **DaemianLucifer** » 25 Apr 2006, 19:06

Well thats why I find the movie inteligent.It doesnt have a blunt message like "cigaretes cause cancer",but a rather vague one.Its more like "look at what we have become".Besides,real life is neither linear,nor plain black and white.So it is logical that the movie evolves as its story progresses.

Derek · Unread postby **Derek** » 25 Apr 2006, 20:10

DaemianLucifer wrote:"look at what we have become"

This is the problem with this film. It shows people that may be under the dominion of some sort of corporate structure but it never really explains any of that. Is breaking away from this mold good, or bad? Again this is never explained at all.

And even besides that, I find this film playing off of stereotypical sexual roles very dissatisfying. The fact that the only two female characters that are in the film being obsessed with sex is not only stupid and ignorant but it just reinforces the point that this film is just aimed at cynical male youths that haven't found a 'place' in the world.

ThunderTitan · Unread postby **ThunderTitan** » 25 Apr 2006, 20:21

Why do bloody movies need to have a clear message and a solution for the problem?

Fight Club basicaly said: this is wrong, I have no ideea what to do about it, lets punch eachother.

DaemianLucifer · Unread postby **DaemianLucifer** » 25 Apr 2006, 20:22

Derek wrote: This is the problem with this film. It shows people that may be under the dominion of some sort of corporate structure but it never really explains any of that. Is breaking away from this mold good, or bad? Again this is never explained at all.

Its neither.You have no good or bad in the real life.Everything has its two sides.Even the atrocities like WWII had its good sides.

Derek wrote: And even besides that, I find this film playing off of stereotypical sexual roles very dissatisfying. The fact that the only two female characters that are in the film being obsessed with sex is not only stupid and ignorant but it just reinforces the point that this film is just aimed at cynical male youths that haven't found a 'place' in the world.

There was one lead female role.And why is she obsesed with sex?Because she slept with tyler?Please!

Derek · Unread postby **Derek** » 25 Apr 2006, 20:28

ThunderTitan wrote:Why do bloody movies need to have a clear message and a solution for the problem?

Fight Club basicaly said: this is wrong, I have no ideea what to do about it, lets punch eachother.

I'm not expecting every film to have a message or a point, but it would be nice if the film, since it is trying to be smart, could have a bit more coehernt point to it all. If a film has no point then why am I watching it?

This really is more accurate than I think anyone is willing to admit.

@DaemianLucifer

Do not forget Cloey(sp?) who was at one of their meetings, this was near the start of the film. She was, again, only talking about sex in that brief scene. Of course since this is a male teen film it fits, but I cannot accept this level of shoddy writing in a good film.

ThunderTitan · Unread postby **ThunderTitan** » 25 Apr 2006, 20:40

DaemianLucifer wrote: There was one lead female role.And why is she obsesed with sex?Because she slept with tyler?

The funny thing is she only slept with 1 person during the whole movie...

DaemianLucifer · Unread postby **DaemianLucifer** » 25 Apr 2006, 20:55

Derek wrote:Do not forget Cloey(sp?) who was at one of their meetings, this was near the start of the film. She was, again, only talking about sex in that brief scene. Of course since this is a male teen film it fits, but I cannot accept this level of shoddy writing in a good film.

Oh come on,thats just nitpicking.

Besides,you dont really expect a 30 yo woman thats about to die,and had no sex for a very long time to act like a saint.She was depicted very accurately.

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Holly wood or holly crap?

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